PSM?
05-03-2005, 11:14 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
PSM?
I'm comparison shopping several '01 Boxster S's. Two very low miles (below 12K) but without PSM, another around 25K miles, well optioned with full leather and PSM. All priced around $34-35K.
Plan to drive DE events, but not thrash my daily driver too much. Drive in Virginia's mild winter climate. How important is PSM to me??
Thanks,
Phil
Plan to drive DE events, but not thrash my daily driver too much. Drive in Virginia's mild winter climate. How important is PSM to me??
Thanks,
Phil
05-03-2005, 12:01 PM
#2
Ironman 140.6
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Can't answer for you but I'll tell you what I think.
My '00 986 doesn't have it and I'm glad. I participate in DE's and Autocrosses with the car and (IMHO) it would wreck the experience. I go to those events to learn and get better. The last thing I want (or need) is a computer trying to help me out. Have I spun? Absolutely, thats part of learning! Bottom line, PSM cannot be permanently shut off (shame on you Porsche) and I believe it "dulls" the experience.
Que car #2. My '02 has PSM. This car is my daily driver and it is sometimes nice to know it is there in bad weather. From time to time when the weather is nice, I deactivate the system. In general, I find the systems engagement to be premature, abrupt, and somewhat annoying. The being said I have driven other cars with this type of system and Porsche's is the best and least intrusive (It is terrible on the BMW M3 for example).
Bottom line, it's not a bad safety net but Porsche really should have provided an "off switch" that can't turn itself back on.
My '00 986 doesn't have it and I'm glad. I participate in DE's and Autocrosses with the car and (IMHO) it would wreck the experience. I go to those events to learn and get better. The last thing I want (or need) is a computer trying to help me out. Have I spun? Absolutely, thats part of learning! Bottom line, PSM cannot be permanently shut off (shame on you Porsche) and I believe it "dulls" the experience.
Que car #2. My '02 has PSM. This car is my daily driver and it is sometimes nice to know it is there in bad weather. From time to time when the weather is nice, I deactivate the system. In general, I find the systems engagement to be premature, abrupt, and somewhat annoying. The being said I have driven other cars with this type of system and Porsche's is the best and least intrusive (It is terrible on the BMW M3 for example).
Bottom line, it's not a bad safety net but Porsche really should have provided an "off switch" that can't turn itself back on.
05-03-2005, 01:55 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
I have PSM on both my cars. If it were me, I'd choose the one with PSM. Here's why:
On the street: PSM is just another safety device. Like your seatbelts and airbags, PSM is there in case you need it. Like your ABS system, you WILL occasionally need it. Hit a water puddle on the right of the road because it's lower with a touch of hydroplaning by your right tires and PSM will keep you going straight rather than off in to the shoulder spinning. Or, if you happen to do that on a turn, PSM with all it's sensors will keep you on the turn rather than off across the median to oncoming traffic. It still won't beat the laws of physics, but it can brake each wheel individually which no human can do at this time.
On the track: I take my C4S to the track whenever I can. The idea is to drive so that PSM does not intervene. If PSM intervenes, you've done something wrong. And you'll know it intervenes because a light on the dash will flash and you can hear as well as feel the brakes actuating. Smoothness is the key to speed, and if you're smooth, PSM will not intervene. Having said that, there are some times when you want the back end to hang out or do a 4 wheel drift just for fun. Lose a few fractions of a second, but what the hey, it's fun!! You can turn PSM off, and it will not intervene. Hang the back out, do 4 wheel drift, throttle steer.... you can do all of that with PSM off. I routinely turn it off for autocross to swing that big C4S butt around some tight 180 turns. If you really mess up, and do the panic "both feet in" manuever, PSM and ABS will kick in to try and save your butt.
On the street: PSM is just another safety device. Like your seatbelts and airbags, PSM is there in case you need it. Like your ABS system, you WILL occasionally need it. Hit a water puddle on the right of the road because it's lower with a touch of hydroplaning by your right tires and PSM will keep you going straight rather than off in to the shoulder spinning. Or, if you happen to do that on a turn, PSM with all it's sensors will keep you on the turn rather than off across the median to oncoming traffic. It still won't beat the laws of physics, but it can brake each wheel individually which no human can do at this time.
On the track: I take my C4S to the track whenever I can. The idea is to drive so that PSM does not intervene. If PSM intervenes, you've done something wrong. And you'll know it intervenes because a light on the dash will flash and you can hear as well as feel the brakes actuating. Smoothness is the key to speed, and if you're smooth, PSM will not intervene. Having said that, there are some times when you want the back end to hang out or do a 4 wheel drift just for fun. Lose a few fractions of a second, but what the hey, it's fun!! You can turn PSM off, and it will not intervene. Hang the back out, do 4 wheel drift, throttle steer.... you can do all of that with PSM off. I routinely turn it off for autocross to swing that big C4S butt around some tight 180 turns. If you really mess up, and do the panic "both feet in" manuever, PSM and ABS will kick in to try and save your butt.
05-03-2005, 06:25 PM
#4
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...I turn mine off for AX, and I've never felt it interfere when it is off....I did however turn my best time on a rainy day AX with it on. the only car that beat me that day was the 4 wheel drive R-32 VW.
It was a standing water day...very wet.
It was a standing water day...very wet.
05-03-2005, 06:42 PM
#5
Still plays with cars.
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FiltyF14 - PSM is a driver's aid meant for those that need help because they haven't mastered the skills needed to drive a high performance car. Sometimes once ability to pay is not matched by one's ability to drive - but don't tell the guy who just bought a GT2 that! On the other hand look at how many crumpled GT2s there are ...
On a race track with street tires PSM (I agree with the other poster) will not interfere with your fun, if it does, you made a mistake. If (or once) your skill level is up to the point where R compound tires are desirable, then PSM can be a nuisance because it is calibrated for the tires Porsche specifies for the car. That's part of the famous "N" rating on the various OEM tires fitted to our cars. PSM will not allow the additional lateral acceleration you can safely get with sticky tires.
PSM whan turned off, stays off. On the other hand Yaw Control cannot be turned off and if you try trail braking more than a little, Yaw control will take over, kick your foot off the brake pedal (it is quite violent) and straighten things out. For a car driven by a competent driver on the track, I would avoid PSM.
Regards,
On a race track with street tires PSM (I agree with the other poster) will not interfere with your fun, if it does, you made a mistake. If (or once) your skill level is up to the point where R compound tires are desirable, then PSM can be a nuisance because it is calibrated for the tires Porsche specifies for the car. That's part of the famous "N" rating on the various OEM tires fitted to our cars. PSM will not allow the additional lateral acceleration you can safely get with sticky tires.
PSM whan turned off, stays off. On the other hand Yaw Control cannot be turned off and if you try trail braking more than a little, Yaw control will take over, kick your foot off the brake pedal (it is quite violent) and straighten things out. For a car driven by a competent driver on the track, I would avoid PSM.
Regards,
05-03-2005, 11:54 PM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
psm?
Thanks for the opinions. A very relevant comment was "can't make the decision for you". Wish someone could, because this decision gives me a headache.
Thought I'd decided, for sure on an S in the mid-30's price range, but now asking myself again why not an '03 Base model with 25 less hp and bit less torque, but with same suspension, a warantee and a glass window to boot! Comments?
Thought I'd decided, for sure on an S in the mid-30's price range, but now asking myself again why not an '03 Base model with 25 less hp and bit less torque, but with same suspension, a warantee and a glass window to boot! Comments?
05-04-2005, 03:58 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
I turn mine off for slaloms as I sometimes use a bit of drift or wheelspin to position the car.
The other option is to drive within the PSM limits but I feel this is bit too restricitive as slaloms are tight and twisty and you need to throw the car into some of the manouvers. on a fast open track using PSM might be better advice.
On the road, get it and use it !! if you go over the PSM limits on the road either the conditions are very bad or you should really recomsider your approach to road safety.
The other option is to drive within the PSM limits but I feel this is bit too restricitive as slaloms are tight and twisty and you need to throw the car into some of the manouvers. on a fast open track using PSM might be better advice.
On the road, get it and use it !! if you go over the PSM limits on the road either the conditions are very bad or you should really recomsider your approach to road safety.
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05-04-2005, 06:43 AM
#8
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No PSM on my 02 S. Finding a car's limit without a computer is more fulfilling IMO. The car performs beautifully in the wet with the right tires. I'm sure PSM is a great safety net in the wet, but I've never felt unsafe; in fact, its a lot of fun! With that said, I've never driven a PSM car, but I would hate for a computer to jump in on my fun.
05-04-2005, 02:44 PM
#9
Addict
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My '99 has the more rudimentary Traction Control, not PSM, which cuts power if the rear of the car starts to slide too much. I have to say it allows me to get a pretty good waggle before it cuts in. Everything I've heard says the PSM is as good or better in that respect. I'm glad I have my TC, and only wish I had the better PSM.
As for your other question...as to someone who's been bitten by a major repair out of warranty, I'd highly suggest getting the newest car you can, especially if it comes with a factory warranty. That's a no brainer in my opinion. But I'm not a power junkie...
Either way...it's hard to go wrong.
As for your other question...as to someone who's been bitten by a major repair out of warranty, I'd highly suggest getting the newest car you can, especially if it comes with a factory warranty. That's a no brainer in my opinion. But I'm not a power junkie...
Either way...it's hard to go wrong.
