sjfehr

http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastra...k-aug-solo.pdf

The August SCCA Fastrack came out today, and included a proposal for comment to move a number of cars off the exclusion list and into SS, including the 997GT3 and 996 Turbo! Will make a number of people very happy, I'm sure - write those letters!

Yomi

Also note that it isn't an SCCA proposal quite so much as lettering members know that someone proposed the moves and they'd appreciate member input. I think the 996 turbo is a good move. 997 GT3 sounds good to me, but then I don't race a 996 GT3 (or a Lotus or Vette for that matter) so not sure how they'd feel.

There's a discussion going on at sccaforums which is interesting if you like reading people arguing about it. The scary one IMO would be the GT-R if it got 19" wheels or 20" Hoosiers. The ZR-1 move sounds like it'd **** off all the current C5/C6 drivers (similar to the GT-R, it would crush everyone only if/when 20" R compounds show up).

Back to the Porsches, what do people think about the move? Given stock restrictions, I wouldn't think the 996 Turbo would be making 996 GT3 owners sweat unless the courses consisted of giant straights. Would the 997 GT3 be faster than the 996 GT3 at autocross? A lot faster? I love the idea of a 2007 or 2010 GT3 in stock class. The 996 GT3 isn't exactly dominating though it's definitely competitive.

Auto-X-er

Interestingly at least a certain corvette grand sport has been doing very well in SS this year. There is the trade of for lower gearing and top end power. Just goes to show you nothing makes sense in practice.

I would think the GTR is just too heavy to handle autox, but then I figured it would have been too heavy for the track too.

The 997 GT3 would be interesting to add in. Should be faster, but you never really know for sure.

Earlydays

...it's not always easy to predict. I remember when the first Boxster S started competing, the base Boxster would often beat it on raw time because the gear ratios in the base 5-speed were a better set-up for autocrossing than the 6-speed in the "S".

MechanicalEng

I am writting my letter for the 996TT move to SS

sjfehr

I was excited when I first saw this, but the more I think about it, the less I like it. The proposed cars are all out-and-out supercars. Yes, SS is ostensibly supercar stock class, and SS is already the most expensive stock class to run in, and these cars can be bought used for under $100k, but I don't think the change would help SS. In fact, I think it would hurt more SCCA members than it would help.

IMHO, it would be more appropriate to place all supercars into street prepared because that's essentially what they are- a purpose built street prepared supercar. If a particular supercar is too fast for SS, put it into ASP. If it's too fast for that, put it into BP or SSM. Don't just punish them in an uncompetitive class just for being expensive, but class them properly for their performance. The only reason to consider putting these cars into SS is if whatever compromises were built into them makes them slow for autocross. GTR and 996TT might fit, but I have a hard time imagining the ZR1 is going to be slower than a Z06. As a Porsche driver, it pains me to say this, but I just don't think we should be setting ourselves up for the possibility that an uber-expensive supercar is "the car to have" for SS.

DOUGLAP1

I think it is good whenever the SCCA takes a car off their exclusion list as proposed in the latset Fastrack. Throughout the entire class structure the SCCA has plenty of excluded vehicles. If it is made in Europe, it is frequently excluded for at least a few years.

In looking over the rules, it looks like the 996 & 997 GT3 and GT2 are allowed in ASP. I believe that an entrant can class their car higher than their modifications would warrant, so as an example, a stock GT3 car could register as an ASP class entrant if they wanted to.

sjfehr

None of these cars are excluded from SCCA autocross, just from stock class. GTR, 997 GT3, 996TT, Viper and ZR1 are classed in ASP. In addition, there's a catch-all at the end that says all sports cars not otherwised classed end up in ASP, as well- this covers Audi R8 as well.

What a lot of these drivers don't like is not that they can't compete- they can- but that they would have to prep their cars to street prepared rules to be nationally competitive in ASP. Which is something a lot of owners of these supercars don't want to do.

DOUGLAP1

i have to say, I'm not too happy about the SP reorg either:

http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastra...track-june.pdf

It seems that the subject cars will all move to a new SSP class next year, and all Boxster caymans move up to ASP along with most others from the current BSP motley grouping. Except - the Honda S2000 gets to stay behind in BSP, and probably become the car to have for BSP. SCCA sure likes those Hondas.

J P Stein

I predict a GTR is gonna take ASP this year at the SCCA Nats.....weight & all....if Hyman goes.

Yomi

I'm regretfully coming to the same conclusion. SS is a great class right now, so messing it up would be quite bad (unless it was part of a total rearrangement to move to street tires, but that's another can of worms).

Whether it's XS or ASP/SSM/BP I'm not sure (you and Lehman both seem to make good arguments on this). I also think AS's being nearly empty brings up other options other than making Yet Another Class.

996 Turbo I think should go to SS. Would even cheating boost make it able to compete with the big three? I doubt it. All the others I agree shouldn't be with the current SS.

The GT-R seems far too heavy, but so far it seems to be doing very well with a decent driver. If it rains, I think it's game over, plus the effect on ProSolo. Even in the dry it's surprisingly fast. As to whether it'll win nationals... I wouldn't be quite so sure to discount the big names with a good Z06 / Lotus. Hyman was 7 seconds behind last year, though I think his new car is quite a bit faster (or he's driving better).

It's going to get harder to justify excluding the GT-R and Viper though as prices continue to fall. The 08 Viper might be under $50k next year. The 09 GT-R could get close. 997 GT3 and ZR-1 are still very expensive. Of course we don't class cars by cost, but excluding a $50k car from SS because the Corvette drivers think it's too fast... For that matter, I bet some 996 Turbos will be found for under $40k next year. They aren't that rare either.

MechanicalEng

A 996TT will still get spanked in SS by the C6 Z06s and the Super Sports, but it will be a bit "more fair" than having them in ASP. An 01 996TT can be had for $35k with some miles on it so its way cheaper than a Z06 or a Super Sport or even a 996 GT3!!!

Yomi

That was my thinking on the 996TT also.

Yomi

Nationals entry list

It looks like Hyman is registered in ASP, with a co-driver. Jodi Fordahl and Laurie Hyman co-driving it in ASPL. Very high probability one of them will win ASPL, but I'm still not sure on ASP. Chances much, much higher if it rains. Mike Johnson and Courtney Cormier are both very fast so it'll be fun to see what happens.

I love the variety of cars in ASP: GT-R, Z06, Elise, Exige, '65 Elan, 997 turbo, GT2. Just missing a GT3.

On the other hand, SS is all Z06 and Elise, with Val Korry's GT3 and Strano's Corvette GS as the only exceptions. The Corvettes do show up in big numbers though.

BuddyK

Good information.

I just found out my 2010 Turbo is in ASP class by looking at that nationals registry.

I would like to find out what tires the other 997.2 Turbo's are running.

The ASP PAX factor is pretty close to SS,
SS 0.857 ASP 0.862

whereas I was previously put into a PAX of 1.00 (AM) just because nobody here really knew for sure - so this will be better for me at my local club I guess. Not that I really care that much, but it's all good.