Attention in the Paddock! Calling all C-Street Prepared!
02-24-2009, 09:36 PM
#1
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Attention in the Paddock! Calling all C-Street Prepared!
So I was thinking of running CSP this season in a 1984 944. What are the pros/cons of this class, and lets see pics of some of your CSP set-ups.
02-25-2009, 01:58 PM
#2
I loved this class when I used to run competitively.
Pros:
Fast class with cars that aren't too course dependant
Best cars in class are fairly low maintenance and relatively cheap to run
Good competition in good size classes (used to be anyway)
Cons:
Depending on your region, high level car prep is required to be competitive
Your 944 is highly unlikely to be competitive with Miatas and CRXs
I miss the speed and capability of the cars in this class, but I don't miss the effort required to develop the car and remain competitive.
Pros:
Fast class with cars that aren't too course dependant
Best cars in class are fairly low maintenance and relatively cheap to run
Good competition in good size classes (used to be anyway)
Cons:
Depending on your region, high level car prep is required to be competitive
Your 944 is highly unlikely to be competitive with Miatas and CRXs
I miss the speed and capability of the cars in this class, but I don't miss the effort required to develop the car and remain competitive.
02-25-2009, 04:39 PM
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Yeah, I was looking thru the records here and CRXs dominate the past five years.
I doubt Ill be competitive as the only thing that puts me in the class is a Seat and Suspension. But, as hard as this is to say, Ill just do this season for the "fun of it."
I doubt Ill be competitive as the only thing that puts me in the class is a Seat and Suspension. But, as hard as this is to say, Ill just do this season for the "fun of it."
02-25-2009, 10:18 PM
#4
I run my 944 in CSP, and while it's very competitve regionally (and even within the neighboring regions), I'm about 3 seconds off the top cars at national events.
My setup: 225/45R15 A6 tires on 15x7 wheels. 275/35R15 tires are really needed though.
Koni yellows at all 4 corners w/ 350# front springs & 30mm rear t-bars
Adjustable Kolkein front bar & adj. Weltmeister rear bar
This year though I'm changing ranks and moving the Porsche to a more "DE" role and getting a F440 for autocross duty.
My setup: 225/45R15 A6 tires on 15x7 wheels. 275/35R15 tires are really needed though.
Koni yellows at all 4 corners w/ 350# front springs & 30mm rear t-bars
Adjustable Kolkein front bar & adj. Weltmeister rear bar
This year though I'm changing ranks and moving the Porsche to a more "DE" role and getting a F440 for autocross duty.
04-21-2009, 10:25 PM
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I ran my 87 na in csp last weekend for the first time. I'm just getting used to the newly built car and autocross. I finished about midfield. I have full delrin, koni yellows, 250/27mm, 968 m030 bars, 15" starspecs. I can tell you that miatas and crxs finished ahead of and behind me. The car has more to give, but I have to become a better driver. I have heard that it'll never beat the miatas, but at least it gives me something to shoot for. OH I forgot to mention, you'll have a freaking blast!!!!
10-01-2009, 12:45 PM
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Well, I've been reading the rules. And thinking...
I plan on having the car fairly gutted. Lighten the entire unit. Also, head is going to Mike Lindsey for machine work and corresponding parts.
Suspension is done, full Koni Coilovers.
What else can I do here? I need to hear from the voice of experience....
I plan on having the car fairly gutted. Lighten the entire unit. Also, head is going to Mike Lindsey for machine work and corresponding parts.
Suspension is done, full Koni Coilovers.
What else can I do here? I need to hear from the voice of experience....
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10-01-2009, 01:03 PM
#9
What do you mean by "gutted"? Street Prepared requires full interior including carpet, padding, trim panels, etc. You can change seats but can not eliminate them.
Generally the same with the body as well. You can remove certain systems (such as emissions, IIRC) but can not remove or change things on the body that would lighten or otherwise create a competitive advantage outside of what is specifically listed in the rules.
Head work is very limited as well. I think you can match engine components to find the most equal parts but any lightening of components or machining outside of factory allowance is not allowed.
If I read your post correctly, you may be driving a Prepared or Street Mod car soon, not Street Prepared.
Generally the same with the body as well. You can remove certain systems (such as emissions, IIRC) but can not remove or change things on the body that would lighten or otherwise create a competitive advantage outside of what is specifically listed in the rules.
Head work is very limited as well. I think you can match engine components to find the most equal parts but any lightening of components or machining outside of factory allowance is not allowed.
If I read your post correctly, you may be driving a Prepared or Street Mod car soon, not Street Prepared.
10-01-2009, 02:42 PM
#10
As said before, you can't legally strip the interior in CSP, unless you plan on going full "IT" club racing rules (but if you do that, you have to do those and only those mods - you can't pick & choose). Only real ways to save weight in CSP is through exhaust (elimiate the cat-back, or replace with lightweight components), wheels & tires, and seats (lightweight front seats, not sure what you can do for the rear).
That said, the big thing you're missing is tires - to be honestly competitive in CSP, you're gonna needs LOTS of rubber. The only restrictions in CSP are that the tires must be "DOT" (which means Hoosier A6 tires), but you're gonna need to run P275/35ZR15 tires at all four corners. Hoosier recommends that you run a 9.5" wide wheel for this.
That said, the big thing you're missing is tires - to be honestly competitive in CSP, you're gonna needs LOTS of rubber. The only restrictions in CSP are that the tires must be "DOT" (which means Hoosier A6 tires), but you're gonna need to run P275/35ZR15 tires at all four corners. Hoosier recommends that you run a 9.5" wide wheel for this.
10-01-2009, 04:22 PM
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Hmmm.. I thought CSP allowed Gutting. Oh well. I'll leave it in there.
So far the car has:
M030 Suspension (all of it)
Recaro Drivers Seat
Hoosier A6's in (I think) 245.
Cat-Back to rid of the heavy canister.
Annndddd.....that's it.
The plans for next year are:
Header with straight-out exhaust.
Port-matched and Polished head work. + Intake Mani & TB Work. Cold Air Int...
More suspension stuff (ideas?)
Lindsey Chip
Help me win CSP....
So far the car has:
M030 Suspension (all of it)
Recaro Drivers Seat
Hoosier A6's in (I think) 245.
Cat-Back to rid of the heavy canister.
Annndddd.....that's it.
The plans for next year are:
Header with straight-out exhaust.
Port-matched and Polished head work. + Intake Mani & TB Work. Cold Air Int...
More suspension stuff (ideas?)
Lindsey Chip
Help me win CSP....
10-01-2009, 06:16 PM
#12
Hmmm.. I thought CSP allowed Gutting. Oh well. I'll leave it in there.
So far the car has:
M030 Suspension (all of it)
Recaro Drivers Seat
Hoosier A6's in (I think) 245.
Cat-Back to rid of the heavy canister.
Annndddd.....that's it.
The plans for next year are:
Header with straight-out exhaust.
Port-matched and Polished head work. + Intake Mani & TB Work. Cold Air Int...
More suspension stuff (ideas?)
Lindsey Chip
Help me win CSP....
So far the car has:
M030 Suspension (all of it)
Recaro Drivers Seat
Hoosier A6's in (I think) 245.
Cat-Back to rid of the heavy canister.
Annndddd.....that's it.
The plans for next year are:
Header with straight-out exhaust.
Port-matched and Polished head work. + Intake Mani & TB Work. Cold Air Int...
More suspension stuff (ideas?)
Lindsey Chip
Help me win CSP....
Another item to look at is the rear diff. I know in my car, a major limiting factor is my open rear diff. (I'd guess ~1-2 seconds per 60 seconds). A Quaife (or helical-style) rear diff is theoretically the best for autocross, but if you already have the factory LSD, I don't know if a Quaife is worth the extra $$$.
Another side item to think of - a 5 or 6 point harness will hold you in the seat better, and make it easier to drive the car well. It's very hard to drive a car well when you also have to worry about holding yourself upright with the steering wheel.
You also may want to step up to more aggressive brake pads once you put those big front tires on there. I'd keep stock rotors and calipers, but just go to something like Hawk HP+ pads.
Another pro tip: Once you have your car "set" for the first year, limit your adjustments week-to-week. If you're constantly changing things, you're also having to constantly re-learn how to best drive the car. It's always better to drive a poor car well than a better car poorly.
10-02-2009, 11:07 AM
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The car is currently 6 points ahead in ES. I have two events next weekend, so the championship is mine to lose.
The car just go a zero mile Transaxle with short Fifth and LSD; "if you're going to do it...."
Currently, the car has a Recaro Pole Position seat with Sparco 5-point. Yes, I know this isn't legal for ES but the Miata 6 points back is running illegal tires/wheels. So we're on good terms.
The brake pads/rotors have tons of life left. I was thinking about adding Hawks and Stainless lines along with cooling ducts from Linsdey/Broadfoot.
I also -kind of- "manage" (for lack of better term) a friends Miata. He's just getting into it so I'm in charge of the things he does. It was his idea and it seems to be working.
The biggest investment I was going to make this winter was the Head, Exhaust, and ECU work from Lindsey. I have an estimated $2,500 bill coming if I were to act on it. I think that'll give me enough spunk to hang with a prepped Miata....
The car just go a zero mile Transaxle with short Fifth and LSD; "if you're going to do it...."
Currently, the car has a Recaro Pole Position seat with Sparco 5-point. Yes, I know this isn't legal for ES but the Miata 6 points back is running illegal tires/wheels. So we're on good terms.
The brake pads/rotors have tons of life left. I was thinking about adding Hawks and Stainless lines along with cooling ducts from Linsdey/Broadfoot.
I also -kind of- "manage" (for lack of better term) a friends Miata. He's just getting into it so I'm in charge of the things he does. It was his idea and it seems to be working.
The biggest investment I was going to make this winter was the Head, Exhaust, and ECU work from Lindsey. I have an estimated $2,500 bill coming if I were to act on it. I think that'll give me enough spunk to hang with a prepped Miata....
10-05-2009, 10:30 AM
#14
Race Director
So now you can have 9" rims and a tire aspect ration as wide as 255. Any rim size (15,16, etc) is allowed as I read the rules. Which size makes sense here?
Here is the file copied from SCCA Fast Track in August announcing the class.
STREET TOURING
- Per the STAC, the following rule change proposal is published for member comment:
Change subsection 14.10.I to read as follows:
“Upper engine shields made of plastic material, the purpose of which is to hide mechanical components in the engine
compartment, may be removed if they have a solely aesthetic and/or acoustic function.”
- Per the STAC, the following revised version of the STR proposal is published for member comment (significant changes are
shown in italics):
“Street Touring Class R (STR)
Class requirements and restrictions:
- Only those cars listed below are eligible
Eligible vehicles are:
- Honda S2000
- Mazda Miata (except Mazdaspeed)
- Mazda MX5 Miata (’06-‘09)
- Toyota MR2 (non S/C, non-turbo)
- Toyota MR2 Spyder
- BMW Z3 (non-M)
- BMW Z4 (non-M, non-turbo)
- BMW M Coupe & M Roadster (1998 to 2000)
- Mazda RX7 (non-turbo)
- Porsche 924 & 944 (non-turbo)
- Porsche 911 (1984 to 1989 Carrera 3.2)
- Porsche 968- Pontiac Solstice (non-turbo)
- Saturn Sky (non-turbo)
- Datsun 240Z & 260Z & 280Z & 280ZX (non-turbo)
- Nissan 350Z
Additional class notes include:
- Tire Allowances (add to 14.3):
AWD – 225mm
2WD – 255mm- Wheel Allowances (add to 14.4):
AWD – 7.5”
SCCA Fastrack News August 2009 Page 21
2WD – 9”- Catalytic Converters (add to 14.10.E):
Same as ST, STS allowance.
- Limited Slip Differentials (add to 14.10.K):
Aftermarkets units allowed per STX/STU rules.”
NOTE, per the STAC: Classing for STR will not be formula based, but will utilize a list of eligible vehicles. Cars *not* on this list
are not eligible. However, as in all subjective classing, cars may be petitioned by the membership for inclusion and will be
reviewed on a case by case basis
- Per the STAC, the following rule change proposal is published for member comment:
Change subsection 14.10.I to read as follows:
“Upper engine shields made of plastic material, the purpose of which is to hide mechanical components in the engine
compartment, may be removed if they have a solely aesthetic and/or acoustic function.”
- Per the STAC, the following revised version of the STR proposal is published for member comment (significant changes are
shown in italics):
“Street Touring Class R (STR)
Class requirements and restrictions:
- Only those cars listed below are eligible
Eligible vehicles are:
- Honda S2000
- Mazda Miata (except Mazdaspeed)
- Mazda MX5 Miata (’06-‘09)
- Toyota MR2 (non S/C, non-turbo)
- Toyota MR2 Spyder
- BMW Z3 (non-M)
- BMW Z4 (non-M, non-turbo)
- BMW M Coupe & M Roadster (1998 to 2000)
- Mazda RX7 (non-turbo)
- Porsche 924 & 944 (non-turbo)
- Porsche 911 (1984 to 1989 Carrera 3.2)
- Porsche 968- Pontiac Solstice (non-turbo)
- Saturn Sky (non-turbo)
- Datsun 240Z & 260Z & 280Z & 280ZX (non-turbo)
- Nissan 350Z
Additional class notes include:
- Tire Allowances (add to 14.3):
AWD – 225mm
2WD – 255mm- Wheel Allowances (add to 14.4):
AWD – 7.5”
SCCA Fastrack News August 2009 Page 21
2WD – 9”- Catalytic Converters (add to 14.10.E):
Same as ST, STS allowance.
- Limited Slip Differentials (add to 14.10.K):
Aftermarkets units allowed per STX/STU rules.”
NOTE, per the STAC: Classing for STR will not be formula based, but will utilize a list of eligible vehicles. Cars *not* on this list
are not eligible. However, as in all subjective classing, cars may be petitioned by the membership for inclusion and will be
reviewed on a case by case basis
