Irksome

Scenario:
- 2003 996 C2 daily driver being used for autocrossing 12-14 times per year
- competing in a street stock class that requires 140+ treadwear tires
- only one set of 18" wheels (8" front, 10" rear)
- generally good weather (San Diego), so no concerns about cold temps

What is the best autocrossing tire with no lower than 140 treadwear rating? I currently run Michelin Pilot Sport 2, and my front tires are only good for 1 or 2 more events, so I'm trying to pick the next generation.

I would like to get through this season (calendar 2008) without purchasing another set of wheels. Switching wheels will require me to also figure out some sort of wheel transportation for non-local events, so I have that planned for 2009 (and at that time will change classes out of street stock), and will put real competition tires on the wheels at that time.

krystar

if it's a dedicated fun tire, why not just get an autoX tire.

kumho ecsta mx, falken rt615, hankook ventus rs2.

i got the rt615's on my rsx and it's crazy fun taking corners at the track.

Joe Weinstein

The best 140+ tire for autocrossing Porsches is the Yokohama Advan Neova.
Get them shaved to 4/32nds by TireRack.

Joe (who wins on them)
http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results...onship/t2.html

Dr. Car

Joe is right, the Advan Neovas are the best for your application, for sure. However, they are obscenely expensive. They can be run full tread depth, which sounds best for your application.

Another tire that can be run full tread depth and will be just a bit slower is Falken Azenis RT-615. It's way cheaper than the Advan Neova. I've used them both on the same car. I liked them both.

I would say make your choice on the basis of budget. If you are willing to pay a bunch more for a tire that's .5 second faster, get the Advan. If you get the Azenis, you'll also be happy.

Irksome

Thanks guys, excellent suggestions and information. I've spent a few days looking at prices and sizes of tires, and I think I'm slowly settling in on an answer.

One question, has anyone run Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 and Falken Azenis RT-615 on the same car? If so, can you comment on the relative autocross performance between the two? On a ~60 second track, what would you estimate the time difference to be? I'm talking about normal conditions, nothing below 50 degrees, dry, etc. If it matters, I typically run on really crappy asphault (poorly maintained parking lot).

One other crazy question, I'm needing to replace my front tires, but my rears are essentially brand new. How insane do you think it would be to run PS2 rears and Azenis RT-615 fronts?

avidtest

Tom, just break down and get that set of Volks you want, and run Hoosiers or V710's.....And car class be damned. As long as it's not raining, you can just swap out the night before and run on the track tires down to the Q.

See? Wasn't that helpful?

Irksome

LOL!

I'm going to go a bit longer with OS/S before making the leap. I do intend to purchase my wheels this year some time, in prep for next year. As your signature indicates, though, that first step leads to an 'Icy Slope'...

I'm planning to order up some Azenis for the front, and gonna go very aggressive with my alignment, and see where it leads. =)

michel944

Does your local Auto-X club have its own "Street Touring" class ? Because the SCCA rules specify there are no Porsche's eligible in Street Touring classes....You would have to run your 140+ treadwear tires against cars with R-rated tires in a normal Stock class (or Super Stock in this case...).

Wilder

I love PS2s but I'm a recent Falken Azenis 615 convert (read my reviews in this forum). It's tough to answer your question but I will say that they are very communicative, extremely sticky (preferred tire by top SCCA AXers running street tires) and as good as PS2s in the rain. Sorry but I can't even begin to guesstimate how much faster they are. And yes, it would be insane to mix tires...big no-no IMO.

I'm parting out my car and selling my CCWs with the Falkens but unfortunately for you, they're WB offsets.

Irksome

I run with the PCA, San Diego Region, and the classification is for Porsche only. There are a ton of classes (too many in my opinion), and they are lettered A-Q, roughly speaking in generation order, but also with an eye to keeping reasonable performance differences. I have an '03 996 C2, which falls into O, '02-current 996 and 997, non-GT2/GT3/Turbo.

Then, there is additional breakdown by amount of modifications done, starting with Street Stock (S/S), which disallows many types of mods (no suspension, no weight reduction, etc.), and leaves you 2 points to play with in only a few categories. Most S/S cars have, at most, wider tires (costs 2 points). Then you can go to Stock (up to 8 points, still some limitations), and then start going crazy with mods in the Prepared, Improved, or I've Got Too Much Money classes.

Anyway, my class currently only has 2 regulars besides myself, though I tend to compare myself against all S/S drivers. I win my class every event, but I'm still letting 1-4 other S/S drivers beat me. Usually it's Dr. Car (though right now he pushed himself up to Stock with his tire choice) and two very talented Boxster drivers. When I'm able to consistently hit top 2 S/S I'll be ready to make the leap to S.

I've considered running in SCCA, but so far the rules and format seems like a huge step down for me. Our PCA region runs phenomenal autocrosses, 12-15 laps per day, $40, 100-120 competitors, and courses that hit 90 mph topspeeds (but with tough slower sections also) and usually take 70-80 seconds per lap. It's a great deal.

Irksome

More info please. In what way is it insane? I'm talking front/back mix, not left/right, of course. Tires on our cars wear at such different rates front/back that it seems like this would be a decision many have faced...

With the current state of my fronts, combined with the <500 mile rears, I'm probably going to embrace insanity, but I'd love to hear a discussion about exactly what might cause me problems before I get out on the track. =)

PedalFaster

I disagree about the comment about it being insane to mix tires. Yes, different tires might respond differently to changing conditions, age, etc., and that might affect your car's tendency to understeer or oversteer. Having said that, there are many factors which affect your car's handling at any given event anyway, and any changes introduced by running different tires front and rear wouldn't be any larger in magnitude or tougher to adjust for than changes introduced by the other factors. I've successfully run different brands front and rear at national-level events.

Wilder

Okay, maybe insane is a tad inflamatory...really, really bad idea might be more accurate.

Here's a discussion on the topic with arguments from both sides. My post on that thread should give you my perspective: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...t=mixing+tires

Irksome

For the record, I was the one who asked if it was insane, so your comments were in no way inflammatory. =)

avidtest

Tom, for AX, it's not likely to be that big of a deal to mix tires, IMO, as long as you're mixing tires with similar characteristics (although I probably wouldn't do it myself). Look at Grep Philips though. Does he ever run the same model tire front to back? Of course, to watch him drive, one is not sure if he thinks he's in an AX or a drift competition.

Until you actually mix tires, you won't know if it helps, hurts or stays the same. And if it hurts, and you spin out a lot, who cares. It's not like you're going to get T-boned by someone behind you. I would suggest however, that you put some new rears on, that you think you will want to stick with in case the mixing does suck really bad, forcing you to buy some new fronts of the same model.