Please help me choose a Porsche model...
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,321
Likes: 19
From: Chesapeake, VA
Yeah, the RSA's are pretty good, but the steering is slow and depending on the course...a pain.
I agree with your advice about getting a 944 (968 would be better) and that it would be possible to add LSD sometime.
However, I don't think it would be needed for anything until you get to a National's level and there are so many other things to do first, anyway...like getting some Hoosiers.
I agree with your advice about getting a 944 (968 would be better) and that it would be possible to add LSD sometime.
However, I don't think it would be needed for anything until you get to a National's level and there are so many other things to do first, anyway...like getting some Hoosiers.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 174
Likes: 28
From: Albuquerque, NM
There's a 968 with LSD over in the Member-to-Member Classified ads for $7800...
https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale-ads-member-to-member-fs-wtb-free/409689-1992-porsche-968-lsd-recessed-hood-badge.html
(you need to be a member to view the ad)
But I agree that you've probably answered your own question since you really seem to want a 911. However, a 944/968 sounds like a more practical car for your family....and I say that even though I have 2 baby seats in the back of my 993. Still, life is too short to not pursue your dreams.
My $0.02:
1. You probably won't be competitive in any car for the first 2 years, regardless of the car.
2. If you are serious about it and willing to listen to others and your brain instead of your ego, you probably WILL be locally competitive within 3 years, still regardless of the car. Maybe in a bigger region that's not true, but it is here in NM.
Paul
https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale-ads-member-to-member-fs-wtb-free/409689-1992-porsche-968-lsd-recessed-hood-badge.html
(you need to be a member to view the ad)
But I agree that you've probably answered your own question since you really seem to want a 911. However, a 944/968 sounds like a more practical car for your family....and I say that even though I have 2 baby seats in the back of my 993. Still, life is too short to not pursue your dreams.
My $0.02:
1. You probably won't be competitive in any car for the first 2 years, regardless of the car.
2. If you are serious about it and willing to listen to others and your brain instead of your ego, you probably WILL be locally competitive within 3 years, still regardless of the car. Maybe in a bigger region that's not true, but it is here in NM.
Paul
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
There's a 968 with LSD over in the Member-to-Member Classified ads for $7800...
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409689
(you need to be a member to view the ad)
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409689
(you need to be a member to view the ad)
The more I think, research, and read your postings, the more I'm leaning toward a pumped-up 944 - either a turbo or a 16-valver. I think I'd prefer a 968, as I understand that the lag on the turbos is significant and I imagine that can ad some difficulty in getting through an autoX course smoothly. Thoughts? I know you guys have covered the 968s - are the turbos classed well?
Edit: It seems the consensus is that LSD is not critical for an autoX car??? I fully agree that for the first couple of seasons I've got much more to worry about, but I've been under the impression that the ability to more consistently put power down through both rear wheels (more or less) would be a good thing. I'm interested in the fact that some of you think it's not that important, and I'd be curious to read more about your thoughts. And I'd REALLY like to get a look at that 968. . . End Edit
Last edited by LeMans71; Feb 12, 2008 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Additional questions
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,321
Likes: 19
From: Chesapeake, VA
Autocrossing a 951 (944 Turbo) is tough...
Not only is the turbo lag a drag, but it's geared tall as well.
That aside, great handling car!
Keep it in the boost and it is one of the fastest out there period.
In SCCA, they go into BS, BSP and then into BP/XP depending on what you do to it.
I've had a lot of success with mine, but it really is not going to be a quick car for someone new and depending on the course can be frustrating.
Not only is the turbo lag a drag, but it's geared tall as well.
That aside, great handling car!
Keep it in the boost and it is one of the fastest out there period.
In SCCA, they go into BS, BSP and then into BP/XP depending on what you do to it.
I've had a lot of success with mine, but it really is not going to be a quick car for someone new and depending on the course can be frustrating.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 622
Likes: 3
From: Calgary, AB
944 Turbo's not a nationally competitive autocross car with the SCCA. As others have mentioned, though, almost any car can be competitive locally if driven well enough. I'd definitely go with a 944 S2 or 968 if autocross is a priority. For track use, on the other hand...
An LSD is critically important for high-level autocross success, but see the aforementioned statement about local competitiveness. Paul's advice is good -- fixate on improving your driving skills instead of buying a specific car with specific options, as the former will pay much larger dividends than the latter (and will be more satisfying to boot).
An LSD is critically important for high-level autocross success, but see the aforementioned statement about local competitiveness. Paul's advice is good -- fixate on improving your driving skills instead of buying a specific car with specific options, as the former will pay much larger dividends than the latter (and will be more satisfying to boot).
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,321
Likes: 19
From: Chesapeake, VA
Well said.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned a 968...
Personally, I prefer running my 911's...but that whole 924/944/968 platform is great.
Ultimately, LSD will be faster.
However, none of these cars have excessive hp/torque (in stock form) and I don't feel it is needed for local to regional autocross. It is much easier to control the car without LSD when starting out and actually a little wheel spin will help the engine get into the powerband.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned a 968...
Personally, I prefer running my 911's...but that whole 924/944/968 platform is great.
Ultimately, LSD will be faster.
However, none of these cars have excessive hp/torque (in stock form) and I don't feel it is needed for local to regional autocross. It is much easier to control the car without LSD when starting out and actually a little wheel spin will help the engine get into the powerband.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 622
Likes: 3
From: Calgary, AB
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
I've considered that, but I have trouble with the idea of buying the car, then buying a second transaxle for an additional $1.5K. I've passed up a car or two that I regret (especially a nice '89 944 for $4.5K) because of no code 220 - based on your advice, I probably won't do that anymore.
That begs the question: is it legal to build a "parts car" (using all factory parts, of course) by adding options that COULD have been ordered (LSD, F&R sways, sport suspension bits) on a particular car, but were not, or does "stock" mean "the way that YOUR individual car was built," period, including sticking to the build tag?
Again, I acknowledge what you've all said about developing the driver before I worry about the car - I just figure that if I'm patient and find the best-optioned car that I can at the outset, I'll save time, money, and frustration later on.
I think that $7800 is up on the 968 page. Looks kinda tired, and there are some non-original parts that the seller is reluctant to explain. Think I'll keep looking, but you guys have re-focused me on a 944S2 or 968 - thanks. There will be time for a 911 later on. . .
That begs the question: is it legal to build a "parts car" (using all factory parts, of course) by adding options that COULD have been ordered (LSD, F&R sways, sport suspension bits) on a particular car, but were not, or does "stock" mean "the way that YOUR individual car was built," period, including sticking to the build tag?
Again, I acknowledge what you've all said about developing the driver before I worry about the car - I just figure that if I'm patient and find the best-optioned car that I can at the outset, I'll save time, money, and frustration later on.
I think that $7800 is up on the 968 page. Looks kinda tired, and there are some non-original parts that the seller is reluctant to explain. Think I'll keep looking, but you guys have re-focused me on a 944S2 or 968 - thanks. There will be time for a 911 later on. . .
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Pro
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 622
Likes: 3
From: Calgary, AB
That begs the question: is it legal to build a "parts car" (using all factory parts, of course) by adding options that COULD have been ordered (LSD, F&R sways, sport suspension bits) on a particular car, but were not, or does "stock" mean "the way that YOUR individual car was built," period, including sticking to the build tag?
I'm not familiar with the PCA rules, but I'd be surprised if they differed.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,981
Likes: 2
From: Virginia
What about a Boxster? $12K is getting close to even 2.7 liter exampls. Heck, I know some high mileage "S"s trading hands in the $15-16K range. Certainly a great PCA AX car. Tough in SCCA against BoxS, and S2000s for instance, but they are really fantastic ax basis. I ran a 2.7 Boxster and had great sucess in my local PCA region against Box S, Improved and Modified class cars, with nothing more than R comps and knowing how to drive, and even notched a few Overall FTDs. I wish I tried a local SCCA event but alas, I didn't.
I think at $12k, you would want/need to budget at least $2-4K for tires, rims and or suspension mods regardless of the "car" you choose to run. Maybe you don't need to address some of this right away (you should get familiar witrh the chassis before modding it) but do keep it in mind.
I think at $12k, you would want/need to budget at least $2-4K for tires, rims and or suspension mods regardless of the "car" you choose to run. Maybe you don't need to address some of this right away (you should get familiar witrh the chassis before modding it) but do keep it in mind.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Yes, I've definitely considered a Boxster, and after researching what it costs to rebuild an SC engine or 915 transaxle, I'm convinced that I would (sadly) buy a Boxster before I'd buy a 911SC. But, no back seat, and they're still right up at the very top limit of my budget. Besides, my wife says: "Eh. . . I like the Cayman better." Bless her - I do too, but we just don't have the budget. . .
So, I'm shopping for a 944S2 or a 968, but having trouble figuring out the market. What is a fair price to pay for a good example of either model - clean, original, well-optioned (including LSD), maintenance documented and up-to-date, 150K miles? They're obviously worth more than an '85/2-'88 944 NA, but what is reasonable. Any guidance is appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott
So, I'm shopping for a 944S2 or a 968, but having trouble figuring out the market. What is a fair price to pay for a good example of either model - clean, original, well-optioned (including LSD), maintenance documented and up-to-date, 150K miles? They're obviously worth more than an '85/2-'88 944 NA, but what is reasonable. Any guidance is appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,997
Likes: 56
From: Green Cove Springs, FL
What about a Boxster? $12K is getting close to even 2.7 liter exampls. Heck, I know some high mileage "S"s trading hands in the $15-16K range. Certainly a great PCA AX car. Tough in SCCA against BoxS, and S2000s for instance, but they are really fantastic ax basis. I ran a 2.7 Boxster and had great sucess in my local PCA region against Box S, Improved and Modified class cars, with nothing more than R comps and knowing how to drive, and even notched a few Overall FTDs. I wish I tried a local SCCA event but alas, I didn't.
I think at $12k, you would want/need to budget at least $2-4K for tires, rims and or suspension mods regardless of the "car" you choose to run. Maybe you don't need to address some of this right away (you should get familiar witrh the chassis before modding it) but do keep it in mind.
I think at $12k, you would want/need to budget at least $2-4K for tires, rims and or suspension mods regardless of the "car" you choose to run. Maybe you don't need to address some of this right away (you should get familiar witrh the chassis before modding it) but do keep it in mind.
Having autocrossed almost every model porsche the one I miss the most is the 1972 911. Clearly out of the $12,000 range now. You will get alot of opinions in here about which model is best. Perhaps you need to introduce more fiddle factor for resale, fun to drive, and $ to repair.
A bad day of autocrossing beats a good day of fishing all the time.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,981
Likes: 2
From: Virginia
944S2 prices are typically between $6K and 12K. Depends how many miles and what needs a fixin'. That said, most "good" examples are in the $9-11K range. Here is a link to one that I deeply considered before jumping at an underpriced Boxster. Really a very well sorted out car, Not sure how the mods would effect car classification though:
http://dorkiphus.net/porsche/showthread.php?t=16058 ... In case the link doesn't work (you may have to register) :
http://dorkiphus.net/porsche/showthread.php?t=16058 ... In case the link doesn't work (you may have to register) :
1990 Porsche 944 S2 with the 3.0L 16 valve engine with approximately 210 hp and 210 lb-ft.
-Black exterior; Black interior.
-104,6XX miles (this is a Canadian car, so the odometer reads 168,5XX kilometers).
-Tinted windows (legal, at least the car has always passed VA safety inspection).
-Some service records from new. The book is dealer stamped from new. I have some records back to 2002 and all records from my ownership.
-10,000 miles on Continental Sport Contact tires.
-H&R RSS Cup coilovers
-Lindsey Racing oil pan baffle kit w/ new sump screen
-Lindsey Racing Stage 1 clutch w/ lightened presure plate
-New motor mounts
-Schnell short shift kit
-Rod bearings done at 100k miles
-Control Arms replaced at 131K km.
-Rear wheel bearings replaced at approximately 131K km.
-Timing belt, balance shaft belt and associated rollers replaced at 137K km.
-Water pump, radiator, thermostat replaced at 137K km.
-Brake pads and rotors replaced at approximately 138K km.
-Alternator and battery replaced at 139K km.
-Sunroof plastic gears replaced approximately 140K km.
-High pressure power steering hose replaced at 140K km.
-All scheduled maintenance up to date. The car will need an oil change in approximately 3K km/1.5K miles.
-Oil changed only with Mobil 1 full synthetic 15w50.
-K&N rechargeable air filter in the stock box.
-A/C and heat work perfectly. A/C has been converted to R134a
-VA safety/emissions until July 2008.
-Car comes with tool kit, air pump, inflatable spare, sun-roof tie-down, 2 sets of keys (key and wheel lock key), extra DME relay, eye front tow hook (the kind that screws into the nose) and all manuals (including factory shop manuals on CD).
-Body in excellent condition for a 16 year old car. It is excellent, but this is a car that was driven and will need a little bit of work to win concours. There is only a little “peppering” on the front bumper (see pictures).
-Interior in excellent condition with no rips or tears or major wear in the leather. This car has 8 way power heated sport seats in excellent condition.
Asking $11,000.00 This is not a car for those looking for a bargain. Feel free to contact me with any questions. (703) 531-8495 - Ted Thomas
Here is a link to pictures of the car:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mweitzma/Web/944S2.htm
-Black exterior; Black interior.
-104,6XX miles (this is a Canadian car, so the odometer reads 168,5XX kilometers).
-Tinted windows (legal, at least the car has always passed VA safety inspection).
-Some service records from new. The book is dealer stamped from new. I have some records back to 2002 and all records from my ownership.
-10,000 miles on Continental Sport Contact tires.
-H&R RSS Cup coilovers
-Lindsey Racing oil pan baffle kit w/ new sump screen
-Lindsey Racing Stage 1 clutch w/ lightened presure plate
-New motor mounts
-Schnell short shift kit
-Rod bearings done at 100k miles
-Control Arms replaced at 131K km.
-Rear wheel bearings replaced at approximately 131K km.
-Timing belt, balance shaft belt and associated rollers replaced at 137K km.
-Water pump, radiator, thermostat replaced at 137K km.
-Brake pads and rotors replaced at approximately 138K km.
-Alternator and battery replaced at 139K km.
-Sunroof plastic gears replaced approximately 140K km.
-High pressure power steering hose replaced at 140K km.
-All scheduled maintenance up to date. The car will need an oil change in approximately 3K km/1.5K miles.
-Oil changed only with Mobil 1 full synthetic 15w50.
-K&N rechargeable air filter in the stock box.
-A/C and heat work perfectly. A/C has been converted to R134a
-VA safety/emissions until July 2008.
-Car comes with tool kit, air pump, inflatable spare, sun-roof tie-down, 2 sets of keys (key and wheel lock key), extra DME relay, eye front tow hook (the kind that screws into the nose) and all manuals (including factory shop manuals on CD).
-Body in excellent condition for a 16 year old car. It is excellent, but this is a car that was driven and will need a little bit of work to win concours. There is only a little “peppering” on the front bumper (see pictures).
-Interior in excellent condition with no rips or tears or major wear in the leather. This car has 8 way power heated sport seats in excellent condition.
Asking $11,000.00 This is not a car for those looking for a bargain. Feel free to contact me with any questions. (703) 531-8495 - Ted Thomas
Here is a link to pictures of the car:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mweitzma/Web/944S2.htm
