Abt12

Here's the SEB recommendations... my understanding is this is essentially the final decision.

https://www.scca.com/downloads/70227...track/download
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#33487 Super, A, B and C Street Class Change The SAC recommends the following changes to the SEB for Appendix A.
Super Street class (SS)
Porsche
718 Boxster S, GTS & GTS 4.0 & Spyder (2017-22)
718 Cayman S, GTS & GTS 4.0 (2017-22)
911 (991 chassis, incl. GT3, Turbo; excl. GT2, GT3 RS, & Turbo S) (2012-19)
911 (991.2 chassis, incl. GT3, Turbo; excl. GT2, GT3 RS, & Turbo S) (2017-19)
911 Turbo & 911 Turbo S (996 chassis) (2001-05)
Boxster Spyder (2011-13, 2016)
Cayman R (2012)

A Street class (AS)
Porsche
718 Boxster S & GTS (2017-22)
718 Cayman S & GTS (2017-22)
911 Carrera (incl. 4, S, 4S, GTS) (997 chassis) (2005-12)
911 Carrera, Carrera S, and GTS (991.1 chassis, excl. GT3, Turbo; excl. GT2, GT3 RS, & Turbo S) (2012-2016)
911 Turbo & 911 Turbo S (996 chassis) (2001-05)
Boxster Spyder (2011-13)
Cayman R (2012)

B Street class (BS)
Porsche
Boxster (987, non-S) (2005-08)
Cayman (non-S) (2005-08)

C Street class (CS)
Porsche
Boxster (987.1 chassis, non-S) (2005-08)
Cayman (987.1 chassis, non-S) (2007-08)


Also of note -

#33162 Any wheel diameter
The SAC recommends the following change to section 13.4.B. to the SEB:
“Wheel (rim) diameter may be increased or decreased 1” from the standard part. This change may be applied to the front, rear, or both axles. Cars equipped with 21-inch wheels or larger may decrease to 19- inch wheels.“

#33372 4.0L 718 Porsche Emission Control Devices
The SAC is recommending to the SEB the following changes to rule 13.10.C that was originally published in the April 2023 Fastrack: “Modifications of any type, including additions to or removal of, the catalytic converters, thermal reactors, particulate filters or any other pollution emissions control devices prior to the muffler in the exhaust system are not allowed and the system must be operable.”

ztnedman1

Sure seems like a PDK 991.1 GTS 4 is going to be a monster for AStreet prosolo.

dps214

I really hope that normal 991s and the 718s actually show up to events. Otherwise it's just further burying the 981s for no good reason.

BmacIL

718 carries the added hurdle of subjectively less desirable (sound), despite being objectively better at everything than the 981. I'll admit that would be the one thing that would keep me on the fence. On the 991, I think it could actually be pretty competitive, but still would fall just short of a 981 or 718, equal driver. That mid-engine balance is just too good, despite the 991 having the rear-weight bias tamed quite a bit vs. a 997. The 997 confirmed to remain not just irrelevant but now DOA with the inclusions to AS (not just Porsche).

Abt12

I'm definitely going to show up to local SCCA events now and maybe some regionals I might not have before. Probably can't swing nationals for the next few years but it's interesting for sure, I'm competitive locally with an AS driver that was just outside the trophies at solo nats this year so a midpack finish is definitely feasible.

I've had a bunch of folks come up and tell me my car sounds great, unsolicited, despite the 4cyl. The noise is definitely different but there's a whole lot of "omg how could they" bias vs the actual perception of the sound. At least compared to the GTS 4.0, stock, I don't prefer one over the other. Now, a GT3 or GT3RS exhaust note is something else...
​​​​

BmacIL

I've heard them on course but really need to drive one to know if I like it enough to give up the flat 6 wail.

Auto_Werks 3.6

Those statements are not made from an objective perspective.
It seems like the message from the club is resoundingly clear: It's time to move on from the 997.1 platform if you want to be competitive in street class. Personally I agree with that. I'm glad you enjoy your car, and you enjoy driving it, but it would not be good for the membership if it became a popular car in BS... or CS... or any slower class. The 981S on the other hand would be a fantastic car to build a class around, but it's stuck in AS.... and I am actually starting to somewhat agree with that as well, because I don't think a typical SCCA member would buy a 981 even if it was a top car somewhere. When you're stuck in the rut of: Buy a new $35000 car, spend $5,000 on worthless street class mods, then sell the car 4 years later for $30,000 and get $1500 back for mods.. It's hard to fundamentally shift.

BmacIL

This is easily debatable, but yes it's clear this is the message (and has been confirmed that this is the rationale).

Agree on a 981S, and it's likely what I'll be driving next year in SCCA competition locally and nationally while I figure out whether to keep the 997.1 long term (love the car as a 3 season daily, too). One two-day event after Nats in a 981S was enough to show me both how much quicker it is and I am in a competitive car.

Side note - what are your thoughts on 991 S competitiveness in AS? Not many data points so it's hard to know.

Auto_Werks 3.6

I have very limited exposure to the 991.1S. Porsche cars are very iterative, so the 997.2 GT3 sort of sets the bar for the performance of the next generation carrera S. With a gun to my head if I had to choose, I’d guess it’s better than a 981S, but not as good for autocross as a 997 gt3. That’s to say, I think a James Yom could win AS in it, but a regular talent person is probably not a threat to c6Z06. I would without hesitation choose a 981 GT4 over a 991.1 S… in fact my wife recently sold her 981S to buy a 981 GT4.

For me the problem with my 997 gt3 is that the groove is very narrow. That car will be an absolute missile on some surfaces and courses, but it can also be just average if the tire choice, bar setup etc isn’t perfect. The 981 platform seems to be much easier to access the sweet spot, and more forgiving. I think it’s hard for us regular people to access enough of the 911 to make a judgement. I think same driver the 981 is faster than the 997 if the driver is decent…. But i think if the same driver is an alien, the 997 outshines.

RacingChris44

I just wish they would have moved the damn 718 base engine into BS rather than keeping it in AS. I can now say I'm competing with cars with 4.2x the engine size my car has (Viper). I know I'm a broken record on this.

BmacIL

True I'm sure in target/philosophy, but unlike the progression of 996->996 GT3->997 S->997 GT3, which all have essentially identical architecture, the 991 has some massive changes with the 4" wheelbase increase (all at the back) and the front track increase. Those major changes plus the significant power bump + PTV + available Sport PASM + 2nd gen PDK would definitely make it quite a bit faster than any 997.1 C2S, and likely a lot easier to drive fast for autocross. That could be a play if I need to have that usability I've come to enjoy but in a more competitive platform. 981 GT4 or 718 GT4 not in the cards at present, let alone a 997 GT3 with where their prices have gone. Arguably the 991 S is also a better daily too.

I've definitely experienced this, but without the same level of adjustments possible that the GT3 shines with in Street Class. Being within 1s of Simms locally has happened, and similarly close or closer with Janulis, Damhoff, but on other courses I'm 1.5+ off while driving just as well. The 981 S can just be driven that much harder consistently without having to be millimeter perfect on the inputs. I was blown away by how quickly I beat my own car (2 runs) on the same day. 981/718 are fantastic and are probably the right answer for A Street P-car.

Auto_Werks 3.6

I thought you meant hypothetically about the 991.1, not specifically in relation to owning one. You should find one to test drive and see if it speaks to you. I'm sure it's faster than your 7C2S. My wife had a 991.1 S 7spd before we were married, She didn't really like that car particularly well. It wasn't confidence inspiring, and didn't feel planted. She would rank that car below the 981S, or the GT cars we have now for sure. I'm pretty sure she said she doesn't want to drive one again. I have never driven one personally, so I can only relay her thoughts.

Z3papa

I'll be hitting a tour or two, likely a Pro and Nats. Hope to see you folks.

BmacIL

Good to know. I've driven a 991.1 base Carrera for a week (Turo) so I know the general feeling, but not at the limit. It felt well-sorted and very refined, but still confidence inspiring. Steering was not near the 997, but I knew that going in.

There's an S with SPASM, PDK, SC at the Porsche-only indy dealer I bought my 997 from. I may go swing by for a drive.

jpgunn

They need to put the 992 GT3 in SS