drcollie

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...sh-washington/

These are usually such safely run events, what a tragedy...Having done hundreds of autocrosses myself - and these people were experienced - I have to think one of the cars had total brake failure.

BmacIL

No. It had nothing to do with what you could account for in course layout, tech, etc. This was a freak, tragic incident. One of the drivers had a medical incident while on course and lost the ability to control the car.

WillyDaP

Sad situation but as BmacIl noted there was a medical situation and unfortunately it occurred at a critical time. Tough for the families and to many of us this also means the Autocross Family. Word has spread quickly as this is unexpected and hard to comprehend but they will be missed and remembered.

edfishjr

That was the first thing I thought of. Unfortunately, this is not all that uncommon. I know of two (adult male) driver fatalities due to the same cause, one at an autocross and one at a hill-climb. Both cases the car sped straight off the course until it hit something solid.

arthurc604

For those interested, there has been some discussions here: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../256792/page1/

BmacIL

Maybe not, but in terms of statistically per autocross run around the country, it is not common and is not something you can really protect for practically.

edfishjr

I don't expect that will be the position taken by the attorney for the deceased's family in court and that argument may just convince a judge (or civil jury) that the sport cannot be saved from itself.

I do fear a few years of litigation, which will likely prominently feature multiple letters from SCCA members complaining about a history of a lack of following proper Safety protocols at events (such as the letter I submitted no more than two weeks ago about the Bristol Pro-Solo... I think my words were "someone is going to get killed", followed by a large settlement from the SCCA, and after which Solo may never be the same again.

I am not saying that anything was done "wrong" at Packwood, unlike Bristol. I wasn't there. As far as I can tell from run videos everything was normal w/r/t speeds, run-off room, etc. But that is not necessarily a good thing. Nothing to point to and say, "That was the problem. We can fix it."

The SCCA position will be that "racing" is inherently dangerous, everyone signed a waiver, spectators were not allowed, and the courts should stay out of it, as the judicial system in the US basically has when it comes to road-racing incidents, not wanting to get involved at any level. I think it likely that the SCCA will lose that argument re Solo.

The best we can hope for is that the SCCA doesn't try to fight it and settles early, even though they may have to become self-insured. The future of Solo may, in the end, rest in K&K's hands as much as any other party.

ipse dixit

What are you talking about?

The driver had a heart attack in the car.

BmacIL

Can't really practically prevent the scenario that happened without complete isolation of course from grid/paddock with hard barriers or structures. Even then it would likely have been 1 fatality not two. The world is litigation-happy and hopefully sense prevails.

Auto_Werks 3.6

The cause of the loss of control on course will only be speculation until an autopsy, and may never be known. One thing that’s pretty well documented is that the toilets were in the finish chute. In hind sight this was a bad play even if they met some distance rule. The finish area has shown time and time again to be a fast part of the solo course, with wide open throttle being typical. This exact case may have been a freak accident, but there are at least a handful of ways a car ends up in that toilet without a medical issue. It’s easy to see in hind sight, but if we all sit on our hands and say “there’s absolutely nothing that could have been done to improve this situation” then we’re not likely to turn tragedy into foresight. A bathroom is a place where you have no orientation to what’s happening on course, and no way to escape. They may all need to be much much further from course, even if it’s inconvenient. There are a lot of people with their brains not engaged on this one. I was glad to see at least some decent discussion on the grassroots page.

edfishjr

You don't know that.
In any case, driver incapacitation has happened with fatal consequences before and it will happen again. A completely predictable, known hazard, even if very rare.
You know what happens when an organization (such as Boeing, who I used to work for) ignores a predictable, known to occur, hazard and takes no action to reduce its chance of occurrence or reduce the effects when it does happen?
You lose in court.

Auto_Werks 3.6

The thing that keeps popping up in the back of my head is medical checkups. Road racing requires them, and the consequences (to others) for a driver passing out seem quite a bit lower there. I’m not sure I want medicals, but it seems like something that could loom if we can’t address unexpected loss of consciousness on course. It would probably be bad for participation, especially if national and regional participation couldn’t have separate requirements.

ipse dixit

Been there, done that.

Did not lose in court.

If I was SCCA, I would be suing the family.

911Königin

Pilots have to be medically cleared............

Praying the families will be able to find some peace.

drcollie

just two weeks ago I had a small stroke on the way home from work (in my Porsche) due to what turned out to be a blood pressure spike that affected my right eye. Everything went double vision and I made it home, but just barely. So stuff does happen, and you can’t always prevent everything no matter how much you plan or anticipate. It’s like a deer strike on the highway, it just happens. Bad luck.