cmorales954

Sway bars are stock. If the car stays SS, it will be another uphill battle and nothing I can do about it . Perhaps I will look to add a sway bar somewhere, depending on how the balance shakes out. Right now its a bit pushy, however it might be a heat-related issue. But, I want to try and find an adjustable front bar that has a baseline of the same stiffness.

If it goes to AS, I have tentative plans to attend my first Lincoln event. If it stays in SS, I am not sure I want to invest that kind of time and money just to be mid-pack at best.

WillyDaP

Make the trip to Lincoln as it is so much more than a National Event, and often one finds out a little secret to help the specific car they own go just that bit quicker. So many folks finally decide to go after years of indecision only to then make the event without fail. It is the largest automotive participatory event in the World and having gone plenty of times the joy of hanging out with 1300+ plus Pylon Pulverizers is almost indescribable! Besides, you never know when SCCA will change Classes , it is part of their wacky DNA, so go now for the experience, you might find yourself in a slower indexed Class the very next year, ha!

Auto_Werks 3.6

I shouldn't even waste the electrons to write this again... but AS and SS are essentially the same performance envelope at nationals. Last year, when top talent was in AS, the top of AS and the top of SS were basically the same. This year, without Krampart and Glover the top slipped just a tad, but the exact mid pack time was 120 seconds in each class this year. If you think you won't be able to clear mid pack in SS, you won't be able to clear mid pack in AS. That's not a reason to not attend. Mid pack at your first nationals would be a pretty great result no matter what class you are in.

Abt12

Yeah pointy end of SS is rough. At locals I'm within a few tenths of Rachel Baker on a good day (60s course) and about .8-1s off the local SS alien in a GT4. I'm competitive with an AS driver who finished just barely outside the trophies in this year's nats. Obviously course, weather, etc. will favor some cars over others.

If you want a codriver at nats though to help cover costs let me know as it gets closer! Not sure I'd want to drive a manual in anger for the first time at nats but if it's PDK I might be able to make that happen. Some competition for the midfield 😅

cmorales954

Yup; great points, and I have closely looked at how AS and SS times compare between national and tour events. While I agree there is only minor differences at the tippy top, the rest of the trophy spots are very different, and mid-pack AS is quite a bit slower than mid-pack SS. My goal would be to trophy.

dps214

The last trophy spot in AS was about a second cumulative slower than the last trophy spot in SS this year, but SS was pretty strong and AS was pretty weak. Greg Janulis' AS time in a 981S (not even a GTS) would have been top ten in SS, are you trying to say that your car is slower than that? Because I highly doubt that's true. Plus the proposed change is going to bump a couple of current SS trophyists down into AS along with you. It might be a touch easier to sneak into the last trophy spot in AS depending on who all shows up, but it's not going to be a night and day difference.

Z3papa

Comparing SS times from 5th heat TU/W when ambient temps were 100 (surface temp was 130) and 88 (surface temp was 115) respectively to the times when AS ran on TH/FR when temps were much cooler is not really apples to apples. Lincoln OPR gets worse during the week but is always far worse or results in slower times when the surface temperature gets hot. For example, over the course of the last two seasons, I've been neck and neck with Dave Becker (12th in SS at Nat's and 2nd at Moultrie in a borrowed GT3 in which he would have won class but for coning away day 1 fast run) and frequently within the noise for the 3 of the top 5 AS National guys who are also local. The very pointy end of SS is a fair amount faster than AS. To say AS which was won by Simms was weak this year is a stretch. Simms was in the top 3 each of the two prior years. Greg Janulis was 2nd a few years back. Damoff has won a number of tours and won the AS Pro Finale.

In as much as I was mid-pack 20th in SS, I can state with strong confidence that I raw time Finchum (14th out of 31 in AS) nearly 4 out of 5 events and at nearly all National events.

Auto_Werks 3.6

I'm sure that making excuses makes you feel better, but it's not going to help you get faster. Simms was about the same or worse distance to the top of SS as he was last year. It's just as likely that he or his program is not as fast as the top of the class (who left) as it is that AS was magically slower overall. We all understand the limitations of rubber on the course, and other "stuff" but the chips pretty regularly fall where they may regardless. You said yourself that you can only clear finchum 4/5 times... I'd say matching his time puts you right in your performance envelope. It's a pretty bold assertation that you would have whipped him on the same day, or whatever you're trying to say. David is pretty good on his good days, and I'd say that ~1 second out of the trophies to nabbing a low trophy spot would be on par with his good days. Set up your car better, or drive faster. Not being in A street isn't keeping you down.

dps214

We can quibble over the exact difference between AS and SS, but the fact is that if you think you'd struggle to hit the top half of SS, and then you show up to nats expecting to trophy in AS...you're probably gonna have a bad time. Well...maybe not if AS contrinues on its downward trend of the last few years. But even then you still have to remember that you're not the only one getting bumped down from SS.

Z3papa

Both you read something into my post which wasn't there. I didn't say I only ran 5 events this year because my wife and I bought a 110 yr old house in need of major repair, I didn't say I resorted to using CRS because my Stone fronts massively overheated based my setup at Peru, I didn't say that after that I ditched my front GT3 bar which I had to run on full soft (basically the same as the OE GTS bar) to minimize terminal understeer per Greg's suggestion and then went with a GT4 rear sway, all in the two months before Nats. Those would be excuses and for the record I was 2/8 of those driving a GTS including 4.0 cars and I was 20/44 so already above what you asserted I said could not be done. When asked, Ive said I got result I deserved due to my lack of seat time and unorthodox changes right before Lincoln. I went to be with friends. Hedderick proved you could nip a trophy and I congratulated him on the spot for the result along with props to Yom.

WillyDaP

Z3papa was not complaining but actually wrote what I often tell folks about running on the Nationals course. There can be some differences even during the day when that huge slab or old concrete heats up even with moderate temperatures. Give him a break because what he is stating is very true and I have commented to competitors that is is often quite difficult to compare times with the change in Nebraska weather. There have been days when the temperature was consistent throughout the week, but the last ( or first ) two days were run with 30-40 mile per hour winds. The other situation is one Class may run in the AM while a similar Class runs in the late afternoon -- the amount of clagg and junk on the track can be problematic, but sometimes it is like a road course where it actually rubbers up.

By the way, this is not something new, folks who have run there for years are aware of course changes and we all know a 50-60 second course can be affected by wind, cold , and time of day. I actually was going to comment on the variances on the Lincoln courses which make it difficult to truly compare at times, but Z3papa beat me to it.

Auto_Werks 3.6

When you've been around this stuff long enough, yes you see those types of thigs. But when you've been around the block with an open mid and accurate self assessment it's pretty easy to see what result data lines up with expectations, and what data seems slightly askew. Nothing about the changing conditions at 2023 would take a mid pack super street competitor to a trophy in AS. It's just not going to happen. Other years, possibly, especially with rain. But we didn't have that kind of course degradation this year.

WillyDaP

I am merely stating the variances one does not always drop into the equation and both of you have valid points. I do not envy SCCA's job , but thankfully I do know they try to factor in some of these variables when determining a car's Class.

Of course all this goes out the window when one or two Classes that seem similar have drivers whose skill and DNA suggest they are the illegitimate children of Mario Andretti and then the rest of us just look at each other and say, " Damn I picked the wrong car for this Class again!"

I will echo one earlier sentiment , a mid pack finish in any Class at Nationals is a win. Add in the experience, the speed info you glean, and the parties and you will go home a winner!

edfishjr

The 987 rear bumpstop is depressingly short.

Auto_Werks 3.6

An SCCA "street build" stymied by good OEM suspension design. If it's anything like the 981, it should respond well to a rear sway bar......