chriswd62

Any thoughts on the proposed Super Street Touring category for 2022? This class would allow the 987S, 981S/GTS and 718T/Base owners, who've modified their cars outside of street class rules (i.e., brakes, suspension/camber, tunes, etc.), a more competitive place to play.

"Based on the membership feedback the STAC received after last year's virtual town hall and in consideration of the numerous letters received over the last several years requesting classing of cars that are currently beyond the scope of the ST category, the STAC and SEB are seeking membership feedback on the addition of a new Supplemental class, Super Street Touring (SST). Super Street Touring will be for the highest performance cars in the Street Touring category. It will have the same allowances as STU but with unlimited wheel and tire sizes. The proposed class listings in Appendix A would be as follows:

Super Street Touring:
Alfa Romeo
- 4C (incl. Spider) (2015-20)
- Giulia Quadrifoglio (2017-21)
Audi
- TT RS (2012-13)
- RS 3 (2017-19)
- RS 4 (2007-08)
- RS 5 (2013-21)
- RS 6 (C5 chassis) (2003-04)
- RS7 (2014-2018)
- S5 (2008-19)
- S6 (2013-18)
- S7 (2012-18)
- TTS (2016-20)
BMW
- M2 (except Performance Edition ZL9) (2016-19)
- M2 Competition (2019-21)
- M3 & M4 (F80/F82 chassis; non-CS) (2015-20)
Cadillac
- ATS-V (2016-19)
Chevrolet
- Camaro Z28 (2014-15)
- Camaro ZL1 (non-1LE) (2012-15, 2017-20)
- Camaro LS & LT (2.0L Turbo; including 1LE) (2016-21)
- Corvette (C6, C6Zo6 non-ZR1) (2005-13)
- Corvette Z06 (C5) (2001-04)
Ford
- Focus RS (2018)
- Mustang Shelby GT350 (2015-18)
- Mustang Shelby GT350 (incl. Handling Package) (2019-20)
- Mustang Boss 302 (2012-13)
Honda
- S2000
Lotus
- Elise (non-SC) (2005-11)
- Esprit Turbo (1996-2004)
- Evora S (2011-14)
- Evora GT (2020-21)
- Exige (non-S) (2006)
Nissan
- GT-R (excluding NISMO & Track Edition & GT-R50) (2009-21)
Porsche
- 718 Boxster (base & T) (2017-21)
- 718 Cayman (base & T) (2017-21)
- Boxster GTS (981 chassis) (2015-16)
- Boxster S (981 chassis) (2013-16)
- Boxster S (987 chassis) (2009-12)
- Cayman GTS (981 chassis) (2015-16)
- Cayman S (981 chassis) (2013-16)
- Cayman S (987 chassis) (2009-12)
Toyota
- Supra, 6cyl (2020-21)
- Supra, 4cyl (2021)
- Supra Turbo (1993½-98)"

edfishjr

My reaction: Fun place to play? Yes. Competitive? No.

At a minimum you'd need a 718S. Probably whichever 4WD Audi can get closest to 4x315mm.

burglar

A 718 would be in my top 5 on that list. If the S were there, definitely top 3. Keep in mind that the STAC wants the class to be successful, so the rules are written to favor popular cars. Therefore, their intent is likely that the z06 (s) are the quickest on a typical course.

I don't think you can get the front tire under any of the Audis for them to work. TTS with it's weight, size, and wheelbase is my guess at quickest Audi even on a narrower (265s max maybe?) tire. Still down the list, and needs a tight / narrow course to shine. The Supra with good spring rates, camber, and engine/trans tunes sounds pretty terrifying and is my guess at the car with the best shot to be faster than the Corvettes in ST trim.

I don't suspect you'll pull enough cars out of CAM for this class to have any chance at success myself. Or, alternatively, CAM would have to start getting a few actual limit builds that are ungodly fast to make the more restrictive ST ruleset attractive.

chriswd62

I agree that there's potential for the 718, mostly due to the ECU tunes that are available which provide a significant power bump. But power isn't everything. Just look at the ND2 Miata in STR. With the 718's relatively low weight, if you added a tune (>350whp),19x9 265 fronts, 19x11 305 rears, and suspension upgrades with the proper camber settings (at least -3 degrees up front) I think it could be a competitive package.

My new 718 Cayman T is scheduled to be delivered next month, which I'll be prepping for AS. Maybe in another year to two (if I keep it ), I'd be willing to add some other go fast goodies and play in SST.

BmacIL

997 (non-GT3) was also proposed to be included. I'd be interested at some point down the road. For now I'm happy in AS.

Z3papa

Does anyone find it stupid to exclude the BMW M2 Performance Edition ZL9. Everything that makes that car a Perf. Edition are items you are allowed to modify with likely better struts/shocks and camber plates. The cars that are going to thrive are the ones who can fit close to max tire/wheel combos which the 718 can not. There are no flares permitted.

Matt Britter

I like the idea of this class, I currently AX a 981CS in AS and also track it. In the stock class, I'm just running pilot 4S on stock rims but am consistently behind (1.2secs) a nationally prepped Z06 in just about every event, so I know the Cayman is a capable car. Light rims and 200TW tire will start to close the gap but it would be nice to run a track wheel set up for AX also(thus only one spare set of wheels) and get the camber better setup for the track tires beyond stock (1.5 deg max in front). I'd have to dig into the STU rules if they are used for the SST class to see the balance of going BSP (limited) or SST, plus meet my goal of Drive to, Race, drive back, and have a date night car for the wife and I. Lots to balance.
-mb

sjfehr

I love the idea except for two things: One: 987.2S is already classed in STU, and Honda S2000 is already in STR. I wrote a letter about it, but SEB did not clarify. I already modded my 987.2S to STU because I was frustrated losing to 500hp Z06s in AS, and would be EXREMELY pissed if they for no reason bumped me to SST where I'm at a 200hp disadvantage again.

The other thing is that they're still excluding a ton of cars. This isn't SST, this is AST. They're still excluding a ton of cars that have nowhere to go but SSP.

abqautoxer

I personally don't understand the cars picked. There is no way I'd bet against an Elise. Most classes like this have a hard time raw timing an STR Miata. Wait until you see an "SST" prepped Elise. There would have to be something pretty significant in the rules for SST explicitly to change my mind.

burglar

That's actually a really good point and would be one bananas car. STAC thinking is that, what, 225f/245r would hamper it? It would be ~250lb lighter than an STR ND2 though? Did you write your letter?

abqautoxer

You say that like I thought the class was a good idea in the first place No letter, I don't like the idea at all, adding yet another class, for not cheap cars and no mention of removing any.

chriswd62

Yeah. It doesn't make sense, unless they give you the option to run either class with the only difference being unlimited wheel and tire sizing. The current STR limitations for the S2K is 9" wide and 255, so maybe see adding wider wheels and tires may be an option; however for the 987.2S is in STU, which already allows up to 11" wide and 295 tires, SST wouldn't make any sense. I guess we'll wait to see what they do.

Z3papa

+1

sjfehr

STU allows up to 295s and 11" wheels for mid-engine cars, which are really hard to fit in the back of a 987, and impossible in the front. There's no advantage to the SST allowances.

edfishjr

The list of cars picked (and not picked) is truly baffling.