jbdmd

Hello

I did my first autocross this weekend with the pca I am hooked!

I have a few questions though:

1)Am I killing my car? (I mean more than the tires...and I was in second gear the whole time)

2)what is it going to set me back to change have a spare set of wheels with sticky tires...perhaps kumho...or similar (preferably used)

3)What other mods can i make to my stock car that will not void my lease but will improve handling?

Thanks!

Z-man

Jason:
1. First off, you are not killing your tires that badly. Sure, you'll have some scuffing and such on the sides of the tires, but you're really only wearing the edges of the tire, something that doesn't really wear that much in regular driving.

2. Stick with the tires you have. It is way too early for you to be thinking about R-compound 'sticky' rubber. Any good high performance street tire will be fine for you. Switch to r-compounds too early, and you'll develop bad habits! These little habits (or mistakes, as they are commonly called) will be masked by the increased traction of the sticky tires.

3. The best mod for you right now is called 'seat time.' The longer you keep your car stock, the quicker you will progress in your ability.

For reference, I've been autocrossing a short four seasons: running in stock classes. Just switched to R-compounds this year. I typically run at the top of my class, and in the mid 60th percentile of all cars (stock, improved, and modified) that run at a given event. (My best showing was in the 73rd percentile: not bad for a 15+ year old stock 944S2! )Click here for my autocross stats.

You don't need sticky tires and mad mods to do well at autocrossing.

Just my $0.42,
-Z-man.

PS: Welcome to the addiction!

Tom W

Z-man provides good advice. I'd also suggest you take it.

However, to answer your question, you can probably pick up some cosmetically blemished used wheels for about $500-$700. A set of "sticky" tires for autocross (Kumho Ecsta V700, for example) will cost another $750 or so, depending on the size you need. Sticky tires don't last long (wear or age). Used R-compound tires that are a few years old from someone who didn't use them are not worth much as they will be old and hard.

Check your clubs rules. Many do not allow R-compound tires in stock class. You'll potentially go faster (a good driver can reduce their time by 4-5 seconds on a 60 second course going from street to R-compound tires) but the competition will be much tougher in a higher class.

And trust me, once you start spending money on the car to go faster in autocross, you are beginning a descent down the very slippery slope of Porsche mods. It will not be cheap. It may be great fun, buts it's never cheap. Resist the urge as long as you can - learn a new mantra "Stay in stock and have fun". I lasted about 4 autocrosses.

onebad928s

I was thinking of getting a better traction tires my self.Like jbdmd i only did a few autocrosses and did very well. My first day i checked it out and talked to the guy in charge of my region.Pretty much here was his responce"being i know your new dont be expecting to keep up with the class veterians". Well of course i had to prove him wrong and out of the 2 races i did i took first and by almost 2 seconds overall.Now im not sure on the rules for my region but i got a feeling they might bump me in class do to the extremes of my car i have done this winter.I am driving a 1983 928 16v and the class seems to be made up of 86-89 32v. Now i have regular street tires but no traction what so ever but in my favor im not afraid of the car or spinning out and i seem to know the pushing point of the car. But would you guys suggest different tire set up for me and if so what type of tire. The tires would only be used on the autocross track and in 17"

Lou
83 928 5speed

RJay

Again, Id listen to Z-man. A couple of suggestions. First, I don't know how many rides you've taken with experienced AXers, but the first thing I'd do is take one (or more) with an instructor. Riding with an instructor is usually worth a few seconds to a novice right off the bat. For me, it was far more enlightening than having the instructor in the passenger seat. AXers tend to be a friendly bunch, seek out the experienced ones and listen. It takes a bit of time to learn how to read courses and learn how to go fast by going slow. Most commited people I've met, have made huge improvement in the first year simply through the learning process. If there's an Evo AX school in your area take it!

All that said, if you're competing against others with more experience and more car, it can get a little frustraing after a while. One thing you can do (depending on the local rules) after you get to know your fellow competitors is get someone you respect to drive your car and post a time for you to try to match or beat. This will give you a more reasonable target to assess your progress with.

Finally, simply throwing on sticky rubber will probably be worth some time, but its likely to be fairly unsatisfying. Why? Well when I put Kumhos on my 996 with its stock suspension, the added mechanical grip made the car lean far harder in corners. I was faster, but I hated the way the car handled. Perhaps the sport suspension would have been fine, dunno. In the case of OneBad928s, I suspect with an older (and heavier) 928, you'll have a similar experience. Within one AX, I added coilovers and sport swaybars and haven't changed a thing since (and yes I do win my class occasionally and have placed as high as 4th overall). Total outlay for the suspension stuff + a corner balance was ~$2500. Cheap by racing standards, but not chump change. And BTW the car in the hands of my highly experienced co-driver (25+ years) beat an extremely well prepared 996 club racer at Zone this year, so in the end a few simple mods in the hands of someone truly skilled can get the job done. Good luck and glad to have another addict on board! hope this helps.

onebad928s

RJay,
I also put the coilovers in with sway bars and adjustable drop links which all together lowered the car 2.5 inches from stock. As for the rest of the car to lighten it heres what else i did:
removed all sunroof equipment (carbon fiber filler panel)
no emission equipment (smog pump,lines and cat)
no mecahnical fan (electric)
removed all a/c equipment
removed all sound deadner
replaced power seats with non adjustable fiberglass seats
replaced bumper covers with fiberglass s4 replica bumpers
carbon fiber hood
carbon fiber dash
.im not experiencing body roll but more or less slide going through the corners with my current 275s on the rear. My car is still heavy 2900-3100 but my overall times seem to be in the ball park of the boxsters. I was figuring a stickier tire would help out more through the corners

Lou
83 928 5speed

RJay

OneBad928S,

If your up with the Boxsters, you're doing really well! Sounds like you could definitely benefit from Kuhmos or Hoosiers. I run two different cars, my 996 and a 911 RS clone. I run Kumhos on the the 996, Hoosier Track tires on the 911. For the ultimate in stick go with the Hoosier AX tires. For the ultimate in practicality, go with the Kumhos. The Kumhos can be driven to and fron the AX, the Hoosiers can't. With a 928 you can carry the wheels and tires and change them at the venue, so its largely a question of convenience ( or laziness ). The Hoosiers are generally judged to worth a second or so on a 60 sec course and are about 50% more expensive than Kuhmos. Michelin Cups are great for track, but aren't so hot for AX as they seem too take to long to heat up ( at least here in New England...perhaps in warmer climes this is less of a problem ).

BTW, I'd check the rules your running under. In my region, for example, coilovers and tires are free. Add a stress bar and your improved. Add a roll cage and its free. (Go figure, a good roll cage will stiffen the car far more than a front bar). Any engine mod outside of a chip or intake change and your bumped up. The main mod you've done thats in question is the lightening. In my region, I don't think theres a problem with the replacement body parts, but if the interior is gutted than your once again bumped. A freind of mine put in camber plates and it bumped him into mod. No engine changes nothing, he finally removed them and is back in stock. One wrong change and your car can be very uncompetitive. Anyhoo, the rules don't always make sense, before you continue and spend $$$, I'd read the rule book. If your PCA and plan on going to Zone, check the Parade AX rules up on PCA.org as well which are largely also different from local club rules.

At the end of the season last year, I was told by some in the know that both Hoosier and Kuhmo were introducing new R-Compounds this year. Word was that the new Kumho was as grippy as the current Hoosier in nearly all respects. They said that the Hoosiers are supposedly becoming a little more street friendly ( i.e they won't blow a two inch hole when they encounter a sharp rock on the street.) Its too cold around here to worry about right now so I haven't looked into it yet. 'Sides I'm too busy spending money on a new motor and trans for the RS. Best of Luck, hope this helps a little.