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Seriously ... WTF

 
Old 02-03-2012, 10:03 AM
  #31  
Bob Rouleau
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Lewis, let's start a business! I see gold speaker cables sheathed in something which withstands near 0 (kelvin) with liquid N circulation. Those would be 100K cables - but those who believe in $10K cables that need to be broken in and are "directional" would buy them in a heartbeat. We could call them 0 impedance cables.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:27 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau View Post
Lewis, let's start a business! I see gold speaker cables sheathed in something which withstands near 0 (kelvin) with liquid N circulation. Those would be 100K cables - but those who believe in $10K cables that need to be broken in and are "directional" would buy them in a heartbeat. We could call them 0 impedance cables.
Believe or can hear the difference ?..... The belief comes after hearing , then the search begins as to why.

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Old 02-03-2012, 11:47 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau View Post
Lewis, let's start a business! I see gold speaker cables sheathed in something which withstands near 0 (kelvin) with liquid N circulation. Those would be 100K cables - but those who believe in $10K cables that need to be broken in and are "directional" would buy them in a heartbeat. We could call them 0 impedance cables.
Actually, I do have some experience with high temperature (77K) superconductors.
I was on a paper presented a few years ago regarding the measurement of AC losses in high temperature superconducting cables.

I was working for American Superconductor at the time, their HTC were pure silver conductors with the high temperature ceramic matrix embedded within (drawn/extruded process...pretty interesting) ... so if nothing else, the pure silver can justify the price.

I am predicting they would sound wicked cool .
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:49 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne View Post
Believe or can hear the difference ?..... The belief comes after hearing , then the search begins as to why.

Agreed.
Human auditory response is a processes perception, not a physical reflex; therein lies the problem.

People believe they hear something, just like they believe they see the image of Jesus on the back of their Pop Tart breakfast pastry.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:53 PM
  #35  
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Every blind test I have seen reported proves that those very expensive cables do nothing. On the other hand someone who pays thousands for speaker cables, spends a month "breaking them in" and ensures that they are running in the correct direction (WTF??!) is bound to be a victim of the placebo effect. I can make zip cord sound like Monster cables with the addition of a couple of passive components (capacitors mostly) and have done so, much to the chagrin of my neighbor who paid a LOT of money for his cables. The golden ear club are, in my opinion, very gullible!
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:55 PM
  #36  
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Lewis, OK, 77K is easier to handle tha near 0, and silver is cheaper than gold, so we sell them for $75,000 per 3 meter pair

Of course said cables will need to be replaced every 1,000 hours because the electrons get tired in the cold.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:28 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau View Post
Every blind test I have seen reported proves that those very expensive cables do nothing. On the other hand someone who pays thousands for speaker cables, spends a month "breaking them in" and ensures that they are running in the correct direction (WTF??!) is bound to be a victim of the placebo effect. I can make zip cord sound like Monster cables with the addition of a couple of passive components (capacitors mostly) and have done so, much to the chagrin of my neighbor who paid a LOT of money for his cables. The golden ear club are, in my opinion, very gullible!
The simplest thing to do is the classical double blind A-B test.

However, this is instantly discarded, as the design of the A-B switch is obviously flawed, as it colors the sound due to its electrical imperfections, contact resistance, connectors, etc....

I really don't care in what people believe or perceive or how they spend their money ... I am just interested in the physics that may (and more likely may not) be involved.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:41 PM
  #38  
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when i was much younger we actually did a blind test comapring mid-range moster cables to relatively pricey audioquest and compared both to cheap 16awg speaker wire, on 25ft distance.
no one could hear diff between audioquest and moster, speakers used were big ML electrostats. difference between cheap 16awg wire was quite obvious to almost everybody and it was a blind test, again.

but, when we took 3 pairs of cheap 16awg cables and used them all together it became very close to other cables so no one can beat laws of physics - simply adding more copper per sq mm does the same trick.

on interconnects, i do not know what is all this stuff as long as you use fully balanced model it should not matter that much. if wire got clean copper with silver soldering and gold connectors that do not oxidize it should be all fine for ages.

i wonder why no one makes hi end cables from those new artificial carbon materials they use in hi voltage power grids these days, theoretically they should be way better than copper.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:06 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
Agreed.
Human auditory response is a processes perception, not a physical reflex; therein lies the problem.

People believe they hear something, just like they believe they see the image of Jesus on the back of their Pop Tart breakfast pastry.
Hmmm, i get it , like the amigos believing schumacher had speed ....

Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau View Post
Every blind test I have seen reported proves that those very expensive cables do nothing. On the other hand someone who pays thousands for speaker cables, spends a month "breaking them in" and ensures that they are running in the correct direction (WTF??!) is bound to be a victim of the placebo effect. I can make zip cord sound like Monster cables with the addition of a couple of passive components (capacitors mostly) and have done so, much to the chagrin of my neighbor who paid a LOT of money for his cables. The golden ear club are, in my opinion, very gullible!
Most if not all double blind listening test are flawed and skewed to produce results based on the vig paid. It's the racing equivalent to stopping by your local supermarket and picking out 10 housewives to test F1 cars ...

Results , they all felt their SUV's were Better ....
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:25 PM
  #40  
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Wayne, so only people who BELIEVE enough to spend stupid money on wires can hear the difference. Did I get that right?
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:04 PM
  #41  
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NO and where did i say such ..... ?


I said all double blind studies ( audio) i have seen are flawed, they pick paid participants mostly students sitting in for the cash and time, you wouldn't use moms from the local super market to test cars for lap times , now would yah...

Well unless it's Michelle Mouton .....
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:05 PM
  #42  
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You guys are FUNNY! I havent laughed so hard in a long time. Jesus on a pop tart. Classic.

I have NOT drunk the high end cable cool aid, although I certainly would accomodate clients who wanted to spend the cash and I would laugh all the way to the bank. At 60 to 70 point margins, they were by far the most profitable things to sell.

I often speculated that if I had two identical rooms vis a vis equipment and acoustics, but one room was a stark, all black room and the other luxuriously appointed, most people (not just house wives at the supermarket) would find the better looking room to be better sounding. I really think a lot of people hear what they want to hear.

As far as burn-in, I have many times felt a music room sounds better over time, but always attributed it to my my brain adjusting to the new acoustics of the room, not the "burn-in" of the wires or gear (I did always burn in gear for 24 hours before installing, but not cables).

I know that if I drive my Jag for a while , then get in my Porsche and drive it, that the Porsche system doesn't sound as good as the Jag. Yet, if I drive the Porsche for a while then get in the Jag, the Porsche system seemed to sound better. Hmmm...
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:15 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Zapna View Post
You guys are FUNNY! I havent laughed so hard in a long time. Jesus on a pop tart. Classic.

I have NOT drunk the high end cable cool aid, although I certainly would accomodate clients who wanted to spend the cash and I would laugh all the way to the bank. At 60 to 70 point margins, they were by far the most profitable things to sell.

I often speculated that if I had two identical rooms vis a vis equipment and acoustics, but one room was a stark, all black room and the other luxuriously appointed, most people (not just house wives at the supermarket) would find the better looking room to be better sounding. I really think a lot of people hear what they want to hear.

As far as burn-in, I have many times felt a music room sounds better over time, but always attributed it to my my brain adjusting to the new acoustics of the room, not the "burn-in" of the wires or gear (I did always burn in gear for 24 hours before installing, but not cables).

I know that if I drive my Jag for a while , then get in my Porsche and drive it, that the Porsche system doesn't sound as good as the Jag. Yet, if I drive the Porsche for a while then get in the Jag, the Porsche system seemed to sound better. Hmmm...
So what is your reasoning for burning in equipment if you don't burn in your cables? I am assuming a phono cartridge doesn't need break in time either? Do you just plug in your equipment and leave it on for 24 hours or do you run a source through it?

Depending on what is used to insulate the cable can make a huge difference even though some may disagree. I use 30 year old Distech pure silver single crystal interconnects. Sounded sublime from day 1. Other brands like Audience cables sound fantastic right out of the box, Audioquest copper cables I have found need many hours before they can be listened to. After extensively listening to these and many other brands including Siltech Empress Crowns that cost more than most peoples stereos there is a clear difference in sound that I don't need measuring devices to hear and I still prefer the 30 year old Distech cables. Unfortunately, the guy died at a CES show many years ago and they are NLA.

Although I agree a large % of the cables on the market are gimmicks it is not the case for all of them and some I have painfully sat through the burn in process and it was as obvious as my 13 year old sons voice changing or is that just perceived also?
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:17 PM
  #44  
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Some good articles & facts on this site:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm

Try this hearing test:

http://www.freemosquitoringtones.org/

If you are older or have been around a lot of noise (races etc.)
your hearing is probably shot anyway.
Save money- don't fall for the big $$$ cables...

Last edited by Jim Devine; 02-21-2012 at 02:25 PM. Reason: add
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:49 PM
  #45  
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As an electrical engineer, I am merely fascinated by whatever physics is behind cable break in, as I had never heard of such a thing until I stumbled across the aforementioned website (while doing a search for something completely unrelated to audio...non linear analog compensation for battery pack monitoring)

I have no interest in money, profit margins, business arguments, etc.
I am merely at a loss as to what is being broken in by such a simple burn in circuit.

This has piqued my interest and serves as a relaxing diversion, as I search the web and read what has been written.
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