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Seriously ... WTF

 
Old 01-30-2012, 07:07 PM
  #16  
cobalt
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
"Cables, cats, pianos and rooms all need to relax in order to be at their best. Constant attention to physical and environmental conditions, frequent use and the degaussing of a system help it achieve and maintain a relaxed state."

"The first day the sound is usually bad and it is very stressful. The last day sounds great. Mechanical stress in speaker cables, speaker cabinets, even the walls of the room, must be relaxed in order for the system to sound its best"

Seriously, at least invoke the name of a dead guy, like Coulomb, Farraday, Maxwell, Kirchoff, Ohm ... maybe even use a number or two.

Delusional self hypnosis, delusions of technical grandure...no other explanation comes to mind.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, unless you are marketing to people with even less ... PT Barnum would be proud.
OK how about Lawrence Hohmann, he was my father-in-law. A long time Bell Labs and ATT employee, he headed the department that invented the touch tone telephone, designed the cables and repeaters for the transatlantic phone lines and designed and ran the first fiber optic cables for transatlantic as just a few of his contributions. His expertise in this area was unprecedented. If anyone would have known about this it was him since it was a direct relationship to signal integrity over long distances since it had a direct impact on how he designed the repeaters and cables. He also was a key witness for the ATT divestiture trials but that was another story.

His twin brother designed the Nike Zeus missile communication system which lead to the delay free satellite communication we now all enjoy. Between the two of them they held over 20 major patents with Bell Labs on what are now commonly used items.

I know My father-in-law published a paper on this subject and discussed this several times with me with his brother but it is not my field so I don't recall specifics. Unfortunately they both passed two years ago. I have a copy of his article but it is in with his possessions we are currently moving my mother-in-law in to our home so it is in one of a hundred boxes.

It is not the definitive answer you were looking for and is just my word but if you knew the man and listened to his explanation and observed the comparison he showed me on an oscilloscope, which was far more technical than George Cardas I think you too would agree.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:27 PM
  #17  
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I am really trying to avoid going down this rabbit hole and wasting any of my time, but I guess I am going to have to reserve some quiet time, grab some scrap paper, a pencil and my trusty slide rule and think about some way I could see any of this being real rather than perceived.

I know in the end I will regret it.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:55 PM
  #18  
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Use the time to prove mathematically , my theory on Faux 7 , 2, and 1 ...
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:03 PM
  #19  
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Not worth the effort you are already convinced it is all smoke and mirrors.

When I find the paper i will scan it for you but we are still a few months out on the move.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:11 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
I am really trying to avoid going down this rabbit hole and wasting any of my time, but I guess I am going to have to reserve some quiet time, grab some scrap paper, a pencil and my trusty slide rule and think about some way I could see any of this being real rather than perceived.

I know in the end I will regret it.
Your perception is your reality.

If it doesn't work for you, fine. Don't bother with it.

Cobalt, interesting Cardas post. Thanks.

(Yes, I have one Cardas cable in my system - from the CD to the D/A converter.)
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:35 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by LT Texan View Post
Your perception is your reality.

If it doesn't work for you, fine. Don't bother with it.

Cobalt, interesting Cardas post. Thanks.

(Yes, I have one Cardas cable in my system - from the CD to the D/A converter.)
My reality is based in physics and more specifically electronics.
If it can be perceived or observed, it should be measurable, or at least be subject to experimentation and validation.
Triboelectric effects, dielectric absorption, transmission line effects, skin effects, field cancelation..all valid in physics, but in audio and powet cables I am a bit "skeptical" with regards to aging and burn in.

A double blind A-B test is always an issue in these areas, and always discounted as flawed by design.

Just because someone says they can hear a difference does not validate it. Psychoaccoustics often trumps physics.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:37 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
Not worth the effort you are already convinced it is all smoke and mirrors.

When I find the paper i will scan it for you but we are still a few months out on the move.
There should exist more than one paper to explain these effects and how a battery on a cable actually works....I am just curious if anyone had links or references.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:47 PM
  #23  
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When you find a way to measure it, let me know.

Until then, good luck with your crusade.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:36 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
My reality is based in physics and more specifically electronics.
If it can be perceived or observed, it should be measurable, or at least be subject to experimentation and validation.
Triboelectric effects, dielectric absorption, transmission line effects, skin effects, field cancelation..all valid in physics, but in audio and powet cables I am a bit "skeptical" with regards to aging and burn in.

A double blind A-B test is always an issue in these areas, and always discounted as flawed by design.

Just because someone says they can hear a difference does not validate it. Psychoaccoustics often trumps physics.
Skeptical about the difference between cables or just the burn in ....?
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:06 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne View Post
Skeptical about the difference between cables or just the burn in ....?
Burn in.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:11 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by LT Texan View Post
When you find a way to measure it, let me know.

Until then, good luck with your crusade.
It's not a crusade, just curiosity. I had never heard of audiophile cable burn in and want to know the basis for the claim or need to do so.

If there is a noticeable/apparent change in the cable pre/post, then it should be measurable via lab instrumentation.

Again, a double blind A-B test would be a simple observational experiment, but I know those are not acceptable due to the flaws in any A-B switch.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:46 AM
  #27  
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It's due to Molecule compaction, different materials will have different ratios and impact time, annealed copper for eg or tinned copper or solid silver wire. Voltage drive (amt) will have an effect over the time constant , reversing direction will also have an altering effect .

Doubt it will show in any RLC measurement, i have never done an before and after test, there maybe some phase rotation, Hmmmm..


Missing Pease ...?
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:14 PM
  #28  
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Audioquest has quite a bit on their site, as does Shunyata. It's been awhile since I've looked at Shunyatas site, but I believe they have graphs if not actual screen shots of testing gear results which is what you may be looking for.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:07 AM
  #29  
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My problem is I prefer the sound pre-burn in. So every 5-6 hours I have to shell out another $10,000 for new cables.

This is getting really expensive.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:30 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne View Post
It's due to Molecule compaction, different materials will have different ratios and impact time, annealed copper for eg or tinned copper or solid silver wire. Voltage drive (amt) will have an effect over the time constant , reversing direction will also have an altering effect .

Doubt it will show in any RLC measurement, i have never done an before and after test, there maybe some phase rotation, Hmmmm..
Given the fact that liquid nitrogen is cheaper than Coca Cola, I should probably just design and sell some high temperature superconducting audio cables ... imagine how good THOSE would sound.

Originally Posted by A.Wayne View Post
Missing Pease ...?
I was more a follower of Jim Williams, but I miss them both.
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