Dr. G

I have been an audiophile for most of my adult life. I even worked in a high end audio shop in Manhasset, NY. I've listened to many big $$$ systems but recently took a leap of faith and tried a low-priced (by audiophile standards) set of speakers. I am building an entire system around them and will post to this thread as I get the system established. Thus far, they completely blow me away - sounding more open and natural than almost anything I've heard.

Did I mention they're cheap - under $2K/pr.

I'm not even running them with "great electronics." I'm using my old Cary CAD300SEI LX20 integrated. Currently the system is as follows:

Source: EMM Labs XDS-1
AMP/Pre: Cary CAD300SEI LX20 (will be upgrading to transcendent 160WPC OTL amps and a Truth preamplifier)
Cables: Sablon Audio Panatela
Speaker cables - DIY cheap cords (waiting for Sablon to finish his speaker cables)
Power Cables: Sablon Audio Gran Corona
Isolation: Boston Audio Design Tuneblock XT and Tuneplates
Rack: DIY Maple Shade type
Stereo Subs: JL Audio f110 (more about this below)
Speakers: Hornshoppe Heil Horns

After speaking with Barry at JL audio he recommended pulling my subs 9-10 ft closer to the listening position than the mains. He has a whole white paper on why this works but it has to do with the delay that occurs with the signal going to the sub. I can say, with no uncertainty, that this simple move made seemless integration of the subs and the mains a piece of cake.

The speakers - when they came they looked laughable. Tiny cabinets, not more than about 30 inches high with an ESS Heil driver that sits on top and an external crossover. I hooked them up and let them play in for a few weeks. The sound is open and detailed without any high end glare whatsoever, but all the detail is there. Once I get the whole system together anyone who is in the area is more than welcome to come listen. This is an absolute bargain in the audiophile world and, by price alone, shouldn't sound this good. My whole system, when all is aid and done (with the exception of the source) will cost significantly less than most audiophiles spend on a set of speakers.

Truth Preamp: $850
Transcendent 160WPC OTL "The Beast": $2699 w/o tubes - a set of tubes can be purchased from dealers at around $1K wholesale
JL f110 subs: around $2k ea retail
Hornshoppe Heil Horns: around $1800/pr - but I think there was just a price reduction
Cabling: Can't put a price on these, everyone has their preference.
EMM Labs xds-1: No comment, in case my wife reads this

I'll update the thread with photos as the rest of the system starts to come together.

A.Wayne

The heil tweeter is very good, used to use them a lot in the past , well until they became unavailable in the mid 90's..

Congrats .......ohh post a pic ...

Dr. G

I'll try to snap a pic this weekend.

Dean_Fuller

I thought the Horn Shop did single driver no cross over speakers.

They are VERY nice. These designs reproduce piano better than mega buck speakers and just blows me away. Piano is the hardest sound to get right in my opinion. Not just tone but the way a grand piano has a LARGE room filling sound. Violin too but not as much. Its been my experience that too much gain will cause shout and these designs get over worked with large symphonies and metal. BUT if your thing is Jazz or lounge music they are the centuries best buy with the addition of a good sub.

I have a set of Cain & Cain Abby's that I used with a REL B3 sub and with Jazz...WOW! I still can't bring myself to sell them even though they have been replaced in my main system.

Dr. G

Ed changed his design recently to use a crossover with the Heil driver. I ran my horns as single drivers before adding the crossover and the Heil. Everything just got better - no loss of the single driver magic. That's with my 300B amp. Ed said with the OTLs and his preamp it will be "night and day." I can't even fathom that as it sounds really good now. In addition, Ed says that the shout normally associated with single drivers is non-present. he said throw anything you want at them and they'll stay clean - jazz, metal, etc.

In terms of piano, I couldn't agree more - and that's coming from someone who has a point of reference sitting downstairs - 9'6" ft of pure piano bliss:

Dr. G

Dean, what are you running in your main system now?

Dr. G

Here's a couple of pics of the system as it stands right now. My OTLs and preamp should be here within a month or so.

cag4

Piano ****...

Dean_Fuller

I've gone all vintage now. I have a set of Bozak Concert Grands from 1969.

I am VERY interested now with the speakers you have. Their website doesn't say anything about them...or I am looking in the wrong place.

Dr. G

Dean - nope, you're not looking in the wrong place. Ed hasn't updated the site in a long time. If you register for his forum you can find the info there. Better yet, just give him a call.

He's so confident in his speakers that he offers an unconditional return policy if you don't like them. I have no intention of returning them and I know the drivers aren't even completely broken in yet (apparently the surround on the fostex takes a while to break in - read some professional reviews online and this will be confirmed).

Dean_Fuller

I agree...most all Fostex (that I have heard) NEED break in. BUT...when it finally does....WOW!

Another note to those reading along that may not be familiar with these "kind" of speakers. One does not have to turn the volume up like most other speakers to get WONDERFUL sound. I have ALWAYS recommended these kind of speakers ( fostex, lowther drivers ect.. ) to those that want a speaker that sounds good at low levels.

Now you have me regretting selling my REl B3. But I guess it wasn't the only one made.

LT Texan

Dr. G, that's really interesting. Looks like Martin King type quarter waves with the Heil. Are those the crossovers next to the speakers? Looks very prototye-ish. Would be interesting where it is crossed. My understanding is that the Heil goes pretty low. I wonder if he is using all of that. Maybe not as it looks like the fostex is 6".

A friend in college (early 80's) had some big ESS w/Heils in his dorm room. The tweeter absolutely blew me away with its dynamics.

Ed Schilling

Dan, now you've gone and done it! You insulted me by comparing my speaker to anything MK has done!

You see, long before Martin ruined everything for single driver speaker design I had spent 10 years actually building, designing and listening to single drivers. That was 12 years ago.

While Martins' work may enable you to model and build a speaker, it will not insure the speaker actually sounds good. His TL programs are good for building TL's. TL's SUCK as single driver speakers.

This is a touchy subject but Let's just say that George's speakers will play louder (at a distortion level you can tolerate) on 10 watts than any MK design using a driver less than 8 inches will on any amount of power.

The speakers George has are a 6 foot exponential rear loaded corner horn using a 4 inch driver and a Heil.

As to whether I "know how to use it"......well, we built magnet structures from scratch 30 years ago and made diaphragms from scratch.....which was a "fail" so we bought them from ESS. Have receipts to prove it!

The Horns are a single driver full range back loaded corner horn....unless they are a true 2 way using a Heil....and then they are a 2 way back loaded corner horn. Xover freq., type and slope is "classified" but is about 600hz and asymmetrical. I went through several variations and it ended up nothing like what I thought it would be.

Anyway, darn you, for thinking I'd need MK for anything! I was here long before him. His work will absolutely allow you to model a design before you build it and it will perform as the model predicts. the problem is the type of speakers it will tell you how to build will have limited SPL and dynamics.

Please do not confuse a true corner horn to a "hybrid".

The Horns in a 17 X17 room will make peaks in excess of 105db at the back wall.....in single driver configuration with >10 watts. the math actually supports this, BTW.

Hope this does not come across as an ad. If so, just delete it but Dan's speculation required clarification.

Ed

Randy V

Hey, look - a speaker guru.

Cool.

Got a Porsche, Ed?

Ed Schilling

Hey Randy, I wish, I'm just a poor country boy.....so I have fast dirt bikes instead....Gas Gas EC 300 (55hp/220lbs, 2 stroke and street legal !!!!), Cr250R (insane!!!), and a KX125 (crazy fast!) all 2 strokes and crazy. Wifey has a CRF230L, daughter a '84 Yamaha DT100 (2 stroke) and CRF100F.

My car is a '94 Probe GT with 125 HP nitrous system. Fill the bottle from a rented tank. It has nothing but the suspension, wheels and engine of the GT...no ABS, no power seats, windows, A/C, stripes or badges...it's a "sleeper". It was ordered this way. 280,000 miles and has had > 200 lbs of nitrous through it in the last 2 years!!! Slick 50 and synthetic oil. Wanna ask me if I think it helps ?

It's hurt a lot of fellows feelings. 30-90 is pretty crazy Not good 0-60....smokes the clutch....gotta fix that one day, you'd think they'd last at least 300,000 ?

I'm an old man (56) but I just refuse to grow up.........at least until the bikes damage me to the point I have too! I make my living in audio but I love bikes and cars. This thread was pointed out to me by a friend and I had no intention of bothering you guys but Dan's post (which was fine by me, btw) required I clear up what George has. Again, I spent 10 years experimenting.......and came up with that speaker....12 years ago.
Ed