Lemon or Honest? Swapping the DME unit
07-23-2015, 03:02 PM
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Lemon or Honest? Swapping the DME unit
First of all a big thank you to all the contributions to this forum. One of my first posts: I'm looking to buy a 997.1 TT which seems poised to have its DME swapped.
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC [edit: PZ München] had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC [edit: PZ München] afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC [edit: PZ München] had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC [edit: PZ München] afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
Last edited by LUXEMBOURGER; 07-24-2015 at 08:28 PM.
07-23-2015, 03:15 PM
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I would check with a dealer to make sure that your thinking is correct. I would be very surprised that the information in the old DME isn't transferred to the new one when they do the swap. Once you get that question answered to your satisfaction, then the decision may become much easier.
07-23-2015, 07:29 PM
#4
This sounds a bit dodgy to me ".........that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode.........."
07-23-2015, 08:37 PM
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As for the DME, if its a Porsche dealer there is a high probability the data will be transferred.
07-23-2015, 11:28 PM
#6
There are many more turbo out there but very little inventory for clean, low mileage 997.1TT with Manual transmission. I would pass in that car and keep searching, I know it is frustrating waiting for almost a year to find one but it is out there.
07-24-2015, 04:37 PM
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Silver Silber Porsche 997 Turbo in Munchen Münich
Thanks for the advice, it is actually strengthening my resolve. There are some warning signs for sure and you did indeed hit the nail on the head: it's not easy to hold off, especially in the summer season. I keep telling myself "patience is the mother of all virtues" but the temptation is so strong!
There are also some new developments today: the Seller wants to increase the price(!) let me give a bit of a background so you can follow the story:
THE TEST DRIVE. When I arrived for the test-drive (took a flight from Luxembourg to München) I was caught by surprise that the car is showing failures, and is not in a mint condition as advertised. The Seller said that the failure only appeared 3 days beforehand, and he did not want to reschedule for a 2nd time to avoid additional costs (he had asked me to reschedule once before, as he decided to extended his sailing holiday, so couldn't keep the original date). Anyhow I wanted to keep a good relationship, as he was known to be a reputed seller, and I was stuck in Münich for the day anyhow, so we had the test drive. I liked the car but I told him it wasn't in the mint condition advertised. We agreed that the Seller would put the car back into the advertised condition. He said the work would be done at Porsche Münich /München/ at his cost, which I was pleased to hear. When I asked him, he said expected the cost could be as little as 500 (air sensor swap) or as high as 3-5000 euros (main cable swap) but it's his cost anyhow.
THE PRICE. The advertised price for the car in mint condition was 56,900 euro, which is the mid-high end of the market (good condition sub 100k 997.1s are advertised between 49-59k in Europe). We agreed to a price of 55,350 euros and negotiated the contract. With a pen in hand and all details agreed, he claimed he prefers to hold off with signing, to have a chance to double-check the over-revs when he gets the car back from Porsche München, to be sure it is as advertised ie no over-revs range 3-6. Reluctantly I agreed, in the hopes of keeping it a civilised discussion. He asked for a deposit of 1000 euros anyhow, which I transferred into his account. Everything we agreed to in the draft contract was summarised in an email I sent him after the test drive, so there's a good track record.
THE INCREASE. The car is now ready to be picked up and I asked him last weekend to meet on Saturday, to confirm the condition and sign the contract (I will be travelling via Münich tomorrow on my way to hols). Now he's telling me that he has "invested" 4600 euros into the car, and that he cannot sell it at the old price!
ABOUT ME: I'm 38 and pretty much used to buying used performance cars, although admittedly I haven't had a Porsche before. I'm pretty much used to buying 1 owner 1-3 year old BMWs and never had an experience like this. My patience is wearing thin, as I'm getting the feeling that the Seller is taking me for a ride. I've been telling myself it's the Porsche world of a sellers market, but I'm not so sure anymore..
Is this considered "normal" ?
There are also some new developments today: the Seller wants to increase the price(!) let me give a bit of a background so you can follow the story:
THE TEST DRIVE. When I arrived for the test-drive (took a flight from Luxembourg to München) I was caught by surprise that the car is showing failures, and is not in a mint condition as advertised. The Seller said that the failure only appeared 3 days beforehand, and he did not want to reschedule for a 2nd time to avoid additional costs (he had asked me to reschedule once before, as he decided to extended his sailing holiday, so couldn't keep the original date). Anyhow I wanted to keep a good relationship, as he was known to be a reputed seller, and I was stuck in Münich for the day anyhow, so we had the test drive. I liked the car but I told him it wasn't in the mint condition advertised. We agreed that the Seller would put the car back into the advertised condition. He said the work would be done at Porsche Münich /München/ at his cost, which I was pleased to hear. When I asked him, he said expected the cost could be as little as 500 (air sensor swap) or as high as 3-5000 euros (main cable swap) but it's his cost anyhow.
THE PRICE. The advertised price for the car in mint condition was 56,900 euro, which is the mid-high end of the market (good condition sub 100k 997.1s are advertised between 49-59k in Europe). We agreed to a price of 55,350 euros and negotiated the contract. With a pen in hand and all details agreed, he claimed he prefers to hold off with signing, to have a chance to double-check the over-revs when he gets the car back from Porsche München, to be sure it is as advertised ie no over-revs range 3-6. Reluctantly I agreed, in the hopes of keeping it a civilised discussion. He asked for a deposit of 1000 euros anyhow, which I transferred into his account. Everything we agreed to in the draft contract was summarised in an email I sent him after the test drive, so there's a good track record.
THE INCREASE. The car is now ready to be picked up and I asked him last weekend to meet on Saturday, to confirm the condition and sign the contract (I will be travelling via Münich tomorrow on my way to hols). Now he's telling me that he has "invested" 4600 euros into the car, and that he cannot sell it at the old price!
ABOUT ME: I'm 38 and pretty much used to buying used performance cars, although admittedly I haven't had a Porsche before. I'm pretty much used to buying 1 owner 1-3 year old BMWs and never had an experience like this. My patience is wearing thin, as I'm getting the feeling that the Seller is taking me for a ride. I've been telling myself it's the Porsche world of a sellers market, but I'm not so sure anymore..
Is this considered "normal" ?
Last edited by LUXEMBOURGER; 07-24-2015 at 08:31 PM.
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07-24-2015, 07:05 PM
#8
No !! Not normal, ask for for your deposit back and run. You will find a better one with a more genuine seller.
Post on here which car it is to alert any potential buyers of what sort of person he is.
Post on here which car it is to alert any potential buyers of what sort of person he is.
07-24-2015, 07:26 PM
#9
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