Let's talk Alignment
04-29-2015, 10:00 AM
#16
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
04-29-2015, 12:49 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I want to get better steering/handling for just aggressive street driving. I don't really track because I have PCCB. Maybe at some point I'll take this car once or twice just to see what it can do. But I am basically 100% street. So I want to get better handling and steering but no increased tire wear.
I am on the east cost in MD.
I am on the east cost in MD.
04-29-2015, 01:46 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What about the toe out? When people keep talking about increasing negative camber to like -2 or -1.5...whatever.. .they are specifying the rear correct? Can a stock turbo even get to -1.9? I thought with stock parts the max was like -1.2 or something?
04-29-2015, 04:38 PM
#22
Instructor
I want to get better steering/handling for just aggressive street driving. I don't really track because I have PCCB. Maybe at some point I'll take this car once or twice just to see what it can do. But I am basically 100% street. So I want to get better handling and steering but no increased tire wear.
I am on the east cost in MD.
I am on the east cost in MD.
When you favourite hard cornering you want more negative camber.
So you can lean more on the complete surface of the tire.
When it is just about hard accelerations, you want to keep the negative camber to a minimum (for the same reason, maximum surface with equal pressure).
When accelerating hard, the back of the car digs in and increases the negative camber. This speeds up the tyre wear on the inside.
Last summer, I wanted to drive from Amsterdam to Spain in one day. But the day I wanted to drive, I had a flat tyre (big screw), so I had to take the motorcycle.
After the vacation I changes both rear tyres and I was shocked of what I saw.
The outside and middle of the tyres looks very good with lots of thread.
The inside was complete gone, absolutely no tread left. I never looked underneath the car at the inside of my tyres.
They would have never lasted the 1500 km trip, so I was lucky that I had the flat.
In the Netherlands there are no good roads with many curves like in France or Spain. So I get my kicks mostly from accelerations.
I might benefit from an mild camber an toe in.
Last edited by Rogor; 04-29-2015 at 04:48 PM. Reason: spelling
04-29-2015, 05:28 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
With aggressive street driving, do you mean mostly hard accelerations or hard cornering (or both)?
When you favourite hard cornering you want more negative camber.
So you can lean more on the complete surface of the tire.
When it is just about hard accelerations, you want to keep the negative camber to a minimum (for the same reason, maximum surface with equal pressure).
When accelerating hard, the back of the car digs in and increases the negative camber. This speeds up the tyre wear on the inside.
Last summer, I wanted to drive from Amsterdam to Spain in one day. But the day I wanted to drive, I had a flat tyre (big screw), so I had to take the motorcycle.
After the vacation I changes both rear tyres and I was shocked of what I saw.
The outside and middle of the tyres looks very good with lots of thread.
The inside was complete gone, absolutely no tread left. I never looked underneath the car at the inside of my tyres.
They would have never lasted the 1500 km trip, so I was lucky that I had the flat.
In the Netherlands there are no good roads with many curves like in France or Spain. So I get my kicks mostly from accelerations.
I might benefit from an mild camber an toe in.
When you favourite hard cornering you want more negative camber.
So you can lean more on the complete surface of the tire.
When it is just about hard accelerations, you want to keep the negative camber to a minimum (for the same reason, maximum surface with equal pressure).
When accelerating hard, the back of the car digs in and increases the negative camber. This speeds up the tyre wear on the inside.
Last summer, I wanted to drive from Amsterdam to Spain in one day. But the day I wanted to drive, I had a flat tyre (big screw), so I had to take the motorcycle.
After the vacation I changes both rear tyres and I was shocked of what I saw.
The outside and middle of the tyres looks very good with lots of thread.
The inside was complete gone, absolutely no tread left. I never looked underneath the car at the inside of my tyres.
They would have never lasted the 1500 km trip, so I was lucky that I had the flat.
In the Netherlands there are no good roads with many curves like in France or Spain. So I get my kicks mostly from accelerations.
I might benefit from an mild camber an toe in.
And because this is a DD, wearing out the tires is my biggest concern.
04-29-2015, 06:25 PM
#24
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
04-29-2015, 07:49 PM
#25
Race Car
You keep coming back to wearing out tires being the biggest concern. If that's the case go for stock alignment specs.
This is one of those situations where you can't have both. More aggressive alignment specs to make it handle better are going to wear out the tires faster period.
Toe out on a street car is the silliest thing I've read lately. It will grab every imperfection in the road and dart all over the place with pavement inconsistencies if you have toe out.
This is one of those situations where you can't have both. More aggressive alignment specs to make it handle better are going to wear out the tires faster period.
Toe out on a street car is the silliest thing I've read lately. It will grab every imperfection in the road and dart all over the place with pavement inconsistencies if you have toe out.
04-29-2015, 08:23 PM
#26
Drifting
You keep coming back to wearing out tires being the biggest concern. If that's the case go for stock alignment specs.
This is one of those situations where you can't have both. More aggressive alignment specs to make it handle better are going to wear out the tires faster period.
Toe out on a street car is the silliest thing I've read lately. It will grab every imperfection in the road and dart all over the place with pavement inconsistencies if you have toe out.
This is one of those situations where you can't have both. More aggressive alignment specs to make it handle better are going to wear out the tires faster period.
Toe out on a street car is the silliest thing I've read lately. It will grab every imperfection in the road and dart all over the place with pavement inconsistencies if you have toe out.
04-29-2015, 08:52 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You keep coming back to wearing out tires being the biggest concern. If that's the case go for stock alignment specs.
This is one of those situations where you can't have both. More aggressive alignment specs to make it handle better are going to wear out the tires faster period.
Toe out on a street car is the silliest thing I've read lately. It will grab every imperfection in the road and dart all over the place with pavement inconsistencies if you have toe out.
This is one of those situations where you can't have both. More aggressive alignment specs to make it handle better are going to wear out the tires faster period.
Toe out on a street car is the silliest thing I've read lately. It will grab every imperfection in the road and dart all over the place with pavement inconsistencies if you have toe out.
This is good info on the toe out. See, that's why I made this thread
. But let me ask you this, why then do many people on the forums claim that a -1.2 camber value will not really increase tire wear? For example if a tire is supposed to get 10k miles, and then we give it more negative camber and it gets 9.5k miles instead, thats ok.
What I don't want is like a tire that is supposed to get 10k miles but then gets 8k.
04-29-2015, 11:07 PM
#28
Race Director
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: KC ex pat marooned in NY
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Re my secret sauce, I'll post it soon...
For the OP, I'd take the car to a reputable shop like tpc, tell them what your needs are and let them set the car up properly. It's really difficult to pluck numbers off the net then order what you want from a generic shop, that's destined for failure.
For the OP, I'd take the car to a reputable shop like tpc, tell them what your needs are and let them set the car up properly. It's really difficult to pluck numbers off the net then order what you want from a generic shop, that's destined for failure.
04-30-2015, 08:35 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Re my secret sauce, I'll post it soon...
For the OP, I'd take the car to a reputable shop like tpc, tell them what your needs are and let them set the car up properly. It's really difficult to pluck numbers off the net then order what you want from a generic shop, that's destined for failure.
For the OP, I'd take the car to a reputable shop like tpc, tell them what your needs are and let them set the car up properly. It's really difficult to pluck numbers off the net then order what you want from a generic shop, that's destined for failure.
04-30-2015, 08:51 AM
#30
Drifting
So after 8 years and 36k miles I've never had my car aligned. The tires wear evenly and the car drives straight. Should I get an alignment or leave it alone?