John W

hi all,
Just got the report from the 111 point Porsche pre warranty inspection. It gives a couple of minor things like wheel centre caps corroded.
It also says:
- Corrosion on brake disc inner faces
- Front diff damp
- Oil leak from both sides at rear of engine - requires further investigation
- Brake discs worn below 111 check limit

All of the above are notes, so I am unclear whether they are advisories or show stoppers. With the exception of the discs I don't think they stop me getting the warranty either.

Does any one have any comments regarding potential causes for the leaks and if it's a big job or not ?

many thanks in advance,
John.

Macster

Corrosion of the inner brake disc surfaces a given for a car in the UK. Must be something in the air.

Front diff damp is likely axle flange seals. My 03 had a leak at the front diff and the tech diagnosed the right side front diff flange seal and replaced both of them. All dry now.

Oil leak on both sides of the engine is -- thankfully -- something I'm unfamiliar with. With my Turbo it developed an RMS leak and that was all.

Oil on both sides of the engine could be a single leak getting blown around or perhaps the turbos leaking or turbo oil lines leaking. 'course there are other places/sources of the oil: Camshaft covers; spark plug tubes. Regardless, whatever the source needs to be id'd and fixed.

Seals leak for a variety of reasons. With a new car the leak can arise from a bad/damaged seal (or sealing surface) or an incorrectly installed seal.

After awhile a seal can leak due to wear/aging which includes shrinkage. My 03 Turbo's RMS I think was a victim of aging/shrinkage as it developed a leak at around 110K miles. Same for the front diff axle flange seal.

Oh, the original tranny (6-speed manual) selector shaft seal developed a leak and at low miles so I classified this as a bad seal or one perhaps damaged during installation or tranny assembly. Since the tranny was replaced -- under warranty -- rather than repaired I have no real way of knowing.

For costs, I do not remember exactly the cost of the front diff seal R&R but roughly remember 4 hours labor and a hundred dollars for parts and supplies. The RMS cost around $1700 mostly labor with the seal running $100 with the seal and other parts -- exhaust rings -- accounting for around $100 of that. (The tech did the RMS without having to remove the engine.)

Anyhow, get the leaks properly diagnosed and then taken care of and then continue to enjoy the car.

Igooz

On the front diff leak it has been nicely documented here (use the search) that there are 2 seals in the front diff and the outer can be replaced, but the inner requires the whole diff to be replaced! ---> ££££

John W

Thanks guys.
I did use the search and read loads about the diff, think I have a clear picture on that now.
This is an 07 car with 35k miles, buying from an independent.
I requested the 111 point check be done so I can get an opc warranty.
My view is they should fix both leaks and replace the discs, but wanted together a feel for whether I should walk away or not. This is the car with the magnolia interior I posted about a week or so back, so quite special in terms of spec.
I will let you all know the outcome, I was hoping to pick it up this weekend but that won't happen now :-/

nzskater

Check out my post on oil leaks on the 2006 997T 94,000km I recently bought. It turned out to be a very minor repair, with two washers (one on each side) and a gasket (left side) being replaced. Not a major at all and shouldn't preclude your purchase.

John W

Thanks nzskater, just read your thread, if that is all it is then I will be pleased. I wish I had pictures to go on, or be able to post up. Might ask selling dealer to take some.

I spoke to the selling dealer (non porsche garage) this morning. Their view is, having spoken with the porsche dealer, they aren't going to fix any of them as nothing is serious. Also the car is at a great price so they don't have much margin in it.
To expand a bit, they didn't offer the car with a porsche warranty, it was my request to have it inspected there, supposedly for peace of mind (wish I hadnt now lol0, and also so that I could get a porsche warranty if I wanted to (the car looks and drives great).

I spoke to the porsche centre this morning, and he went through the technicians notes.
The disks are worn to just below the 111 point check limits, meaning that they would need to be replaced to get the warranty. They arent scored and the pads have loads of meat left on them. Interestingly though, they arent covered by the warranty anyway !
So i would need to spend ~£1k5 to replace the disks / pads all round just to get the warranty (price for oe parts only, from jasmine rather than main dealer). Seems daft.

Second, the damp front diff is just that. a slight trace of oil, but no dripping or build up. This would not affect getting a warranty, and just needs monitoring. He was not sure where it was from.

next, the engine leak. He wasn't sure where it was coming from, and as the invoice said, needs investigation. It is not classified as a major leak, just shows oil traces rather than being bone dry. Not sure if it drips, he didn't say. I would really like to have a look at this myself, but the car is 100 miles away...

finally, the engine range 3. There are 5 hits in this area.
the porsche guy said that to get a warranty they would want to pull the plugs and do an internal bore inspection, plus check oil and filters for swarf.
He accepted that this was probably just one early down / late up change, but its a condition of the warranty. I thought this was only necessary for level 4, but apparently this has been revised :-|

To me, all of the above doesn't put me off the car, although I have a concern about the engine oil leak.
It does make me think the porsche centre is being very thorough which is great, but makes me question the need to spend a bunch of money just to get their warranty...

mm450exc

I had the front left side diff/drive shaft seal replaced a few month ago. Also had 1 turbo replaced last week but mine had an internal leak where the oil gets sucked into the intake.

- Front diff damp
Seal replacement
- Oil leak from both sides at rear of engine - requires further investigation
possibly need 2x new turbo (expensive - £10k if you need new turbos)
- Brake discs worn below 111 check limit
4x new discs

John W

Thanks for reply.

Dealer is going to pressure wash the engine to determine the source of the leak, then we can decide how best to proceed.
Turbos are covered by the rac warranty they provide, but I still want to know the cause before I proceed any further with the sale.

nzskater

I'd offer the dealer the current price you're looking minus cost of all repair work, or ask again for him to sort it out. Put some pressure on him, in the end he wants to sell the car. There's always another car out there, better to wait another month or two and find your perfect example (unless this is it?).

Macster

Was not clear to me that you were in the process of buying the car.

With the leak issues I'd be inclined to give the car a miss unless they were all addressed *before* I bought the car and the repairs were covered by a warranty that passed to me when I bought the car.

I'm not a fan of pressure washing the engine. The times I've been at the dealer in the service department with one of my cars or with other cars on the lift with a leak the techs always seem to id the source of the leak without pressure washing the engine. Once (at least) the tech washed a portion of my Boxster's engine -- a camshaft cover -- to see how bad the leak was. (It proved to not be bad at all and we have taken a wait and see attitude.)

I think it is safe to say no leak ever got better over time and miles, so whatever leaks the car has when you buy it will at some point under your ownership have to be fixed.

Next, regarding this statement by you: "Also the car is at a great price so they don't have much margin in it."

My reply is that everything a car salesman tells you is intended to 1) get you to buy the car as soon as possible; 2) pay as much for the car as possible.

There is enough margin in the sale price of the car to cover the repairs. If not then the seller paid too much for the car given its condition but this does not mean you have to repeat this mistake.

John W

Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments.

I do agree that the sensible thing would be to walk away.
It has taken a while to find this car, so trying to make the deal work.

I do also agree that I should be expecting the leaks repaired.
The fact the Porsche garage said the diff should be monitored has indicated to the dealer that it does not need immediate attention.
I think they realise the engine leak is potentially a deal breaker, and they asked the Porsche dealer how best to proceed. They suggested a pressure washing and then a drive to see where the source is.
I have requested they put it up on a ramp and send me some pics. I may take a return visit so I can go inspect it myself again too.

I Think this is the car for me, so trying to give them some latitude to address the issues, but if this leak is major I may have no choice but to walk away.
I will let you know how I get on.

John W

ok, so here is a pic of the area (I think) of the leak.
Hopefully it will upload ok...

John W

As per the title, are oil leaks common for these engines, or are they usually bone dry ?
Sorry for asking the same daft question, but being told that leaks are common on these, and I didnt think they were.

From my pic above this looks to be at the rear ofthe engine on the oil tank side.
I am unclear if this is where the scavenge pump is that leaked on nzskaters car ?
What is there is this area to leak, maybe up the side of the head or oil tank area ?

mm450exc

Leaks are not common. If you got one you have a problem. Everything should be bone dry!

jhbrennan

2008 TT with 33,000 miles - no leaks.