2010 PDK Turbo: test drive by gen1 owner
11-25-2009, 03:10 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
I'm a manual guy at heart (just purchased a manual 997.1TT) and at this point in my life I still feel like manual is the only way I would ever go. But if some of the reviews of the new PDK I have read are accurate, then the auto transmission is a pretty compelling proposition. Maybe they are just waxing eloquent, but I've read reviews suggesting that the new PDK is incredibly quick at shifting (much faster than a human could do) and seems to almost realize when a shift (up or down) should occur, even before your brain can make the decision in a manual. I can see where this could be very compelling, especially in racing mode, if your brain power can focus more resources on choosing the perfect line and not being diverted to the decision of when to shift.
This probably doesn't make much sense, but it seemed to make sense to me when I read the review about PDK.
This probably doesn't make much sense, but it seemed to make sense to me when I read the review about PDK.
11-25-2009, 07:30 AM
#17
Addict
Rennlist Member
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I'm new to this forum and waiting on the delivery of a 2010 Turbo PDK. I understand your point about not having the same synaptic feel with the PDK in auto mode as to when a shift change may be necessary. But I'm sure in manual mode where you have the intuitive luxury, to either change gears with the paddle shifters or via the gear selector, you should be able to make a conscious decision, depending on RPM reached, when a gear change is necessary. No it isn't the same visceral feel with the manual as has been noted, but for those of us who are hoping to experience the new techn. of the PDK it's the next best thing. And again I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to learn more about a great new car that I can't wait to arrive.
Jay
Jay
I have PDK in one of my other cars (not trying to sound like a 6bling "stable" owner here - it is a VW
) and I'm sure the Porsche PDK will be the best there is for this technology. There is just something I like when pulling out of a junction, the feel of slotting the gear and the clutch gripping (particularly this GT2 non hydra clutch) one can modulate "on the fly" how one wants to exit said junction. If a fraction of a second after letting out the clutch more thrust is needed (for any reason which may cross ones mind, not excluding the childish but ever present desire to maybe have some traction breaking action) the clutch can be dipped ever so slightly, more torque fed in and using ones left leg/foot some hilarious fun testosterone fuelled progress can be made...................
Automatic gear changing is just following the crowd IMO, all the other "sports" cars have it so it is what people want and of course that 0-60mph time 3.0s FFS is a big headliner.....
11-25-2009, 07:54 AM
#18
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I understand your point about not having the same synaptic feel with the PDK in auto mode as to when a shift change may be necessary. But I'm sure in manual mode where you have the intuitive luxury, to either change gears with the paddle shifters or via the gear selector, you should be able to make a conscious decision, depending on RPM reached, when a gear change is necessary.
Perhaps now I am nearing my mid-30s I am just getting old and forgetful!
11-25-2009, 06:33 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Why are you trolling so much these days? There was a time when you had useful things to say. Why the change?
11-26-2009, 05:58 AM
#20
Intermediate
Hi Alex,
What day are you at Silverstone ?. Im there on Wednesday morning. Im planning a Turbo return, and want to rule out the Gen 2 PDK, before buying another Gen 1 manual car. Regards, SIMON.
What day are you at Silverstone ?. Im there on Wednesday morning. Im planning a Turbo return, and want to rule out the Gen 2 PDK, before buying another Gen 1 manual car. Regards, SIMON.
11-26-2009, 06:30 AM
#21
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Hi Simon, I am there on Tue, 1st Dec. So sadly we will miss each other.
I am driving my Stage II gen1 Turbo up there and back (1.5hrs each way) so I will be able to literally step between cars and compare the two. I will be posting my findings both here and on the Porsche Club GB forums.
I am driving my Stage II gen1 Turbo up there and back (1.5hrs each way) so I will be able to literally step between cars and compare the two. I will be posting my findings both here and on the Porsche Club GB forums.
11-26-2009, 06:34 AM
#22
Intermediate
Hi Simon, I am there on Tue, 1st Dec. So sadly we will miss each other.
I am driving my Stage II gen1 Turbo up there and back (1.5hrs each way) so I will be able to literally step between cars and compare the two. I will be posting my findings both here and on the Porsche Club GB forums.
I am driving my Stage II gen1 Turbo up there and back (1.5hrs each way) so I will be able to literally step between cars and compare the two. I will be posting my findings both here and on the Porsche Club GB forums.
Would have been nice to have met and chatted. Yes, please keep us informed of your findings, regards, SIMON.
11-26-2009, 08:16 PM
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Hi Simon, I am there on Tue, 1st Dec. So sadly we will miss each other.
I am driving my Stage II gen1 Turbo up there and back (1.5hrs each way) so I will be able to literally step between cars and compare the two. I will be posting my findings both here and on the Porsche Club GB forums.
I am driving my Stage II gen1 Turbo up there and back (1.5hrs each way) so I will be able to literally step between cars and compare the two. I will be posting my findings both here and on the Porsche Club GB forums.
11-27-2009, 12:45 AM
#25
Race Director
I lose track of what gear I am in for manual mode too with paddle shifters. With a manual I seem to have a better memory recollection for where in the gear 'gate' I last put the stick. The change up/down action for each gear on an auto-paddle shift is the same and as such I lose track.
Perhaps now I am nearing my mid-30s I am just getting old and forgetful!
Perhaps now I am nearing my mid-30s I am just getting old and forgetful!
12-01-2009, 05:27 PM
#27
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Great day, lots of fun at Silverstone Porsche Center today for a free 997.2 Turbo experience day.
It was a frosty start to the morning but the sunshine soon brought the temperature up to a lofty 3 degC.
Once arrived and checked into the Center we started with a bacon sandwich and a cup of tea whilst watching the previous session participants hammer around the handling circuit. We were then split into 2 groups of 6 and given the tour of the building along with a short briefing.
Then followed 30 mins on the experience center track ‘rides’, after which was 30 mins playing with launch control over the back of the Silverstone circuit (not actually on the circuit itself). Then back for a ride in a Panamera Turbo with an instructor (going huge speeds and power-sliding around the handling tracks) followed by a spot of lunch. End to end about 3 hours worth of indulgence.
So I started the day in a manual facelift Turbo with PTV, taking it around the handling circuit with my instructor. The gen2 car is certainly a little tighter than the gen1 Turbo, and a little more eager on the power front - but not a huge leap over the gen1 car, perhaps only a couple of percent. Sadly on the water rides (kick plate and ice hill) you couldn’t tell any difference between how tail happy the new car is vs the old one. 15 mins in and we all played musical chairs with the cars; now over to a PDK Turbo.
I was mightily impressed with the 2 modes of Sport and Sport Plus. The Plus mode really holds the revs right up to the limiter, even when you are not accelerating. Another cool PDK trick is you can actually change up gears just by blipping the throttle. The car certainly feels more eager to accelerate with PDK in SPorts Plus and if anything you seem to feel more thrust after it changes up – I suppose the peak torque is lower in the rev range so this is not that surprising. Forgetting about the gears really lets you concentrate on the balance of the car and you can certainly make faster progress than in the manual.
The real delight of the day though was the launch control session. Completely irrelevant on real world roads but great fun on the track none the less! You put the car into Sports Plus mode, left foot brake, then stamp on the throttle. If you do this too slow then LC won’t come up on the steering wheel. When Launch Control appears you let go of the brake and catapult forwards. I have some footage I just uploaded to YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFgkyCkIQss
We also did some slalom’s through cones to see the PVT in action (although it felt about the same as a gen1 car to me here). I thought the noise of the car is much improved. Not aftermarket levels of noise but still much more how a supercar should sound. It still doesn't make up for a lack of a proper sports exhaust option though.
So all in all, a 997.2 PDK with flappy-paddles is certainly a car to lust after. I think if you are a 997.1 owner then PDK and the improved 3.0 PCM are very tempting options to upgrade to. I myself would spec all the performance goodies plus lightweight wheels and bucket seats if I were to get the new car. Probably with the new aerokit in blue, such as:
Now you guys won’t believe me without some independent testing, but even after all the fun today, I still maintain that my aftermarket mod’ed 997.1 Turbo is superior in almost every respect compared to a 997.2 Turbo (even with PDK). IMHO it has better looking wheels, it goes faster (my 2nd gear G-force is definitely more than PDK 1st gear launches), it sounds better, it handles better (less roll, less squat, sharper steering response, less under-steer, etc), and I think I am just a 'manual transmission in a sportscar' type of a guy. So even if someone gave me a facelift Turbo to garage next to mine, I am sorry to say that it would never get driven. I’d always head straight for the gen1 mod’ed car keys 10/10 times; it’s just so much more involving. So the 991 Turbo will be the next car I consider swapping to.
Just to clarify I would personally rate the cars as follows:
997.1 Turbo (tiptronic) = 15/20
997.1 Turbo (manual) = 16/20
997.2 Turbo (manual) = 17/20
997.2 Turbo (PDK) = 18/20
My modified 997.1 Turbo (manual) = 19/20
My car would be 20/20 if it was better looking (I find the rear 1/4 view including the spoiler not pretty at all) and weighed a few hundred kg less.
Great day out though!!!
It was a frosty start to the morning but the sunshine soon brought the temperature up to a lofty 3 degC.
Once arrived and checked into the Center we started with a bacon sandwich and a cup of tea whilst watching the previous session participants hammer around the handling circuit. We were then split into 2 groups of 6 and given the tour of the building along with a short briefing.
Then followed 30 mins on the experience center track ‘rides’, after which was 30 mins playing with launch control over the back of the Silverstone circuit (not actually on the circuit itself). Then back for a ride in a Panamera Turbo with an instructor (going huge speeds and power-sliding around the handling tracks) followed by a spot of lunch. End to end about 3 hours worth of indulgence.
So I started the day in a manual facelift Turbo with PTV, taking it around the handling circuit with my instructor. The gen2 car is certainly a little tighter than the gen1 Turbo, and a little more eager on the power front - but not a huge leap over the gen1 car, perhaps only a couple of percent. Sadly on the water rides (kick plate and ice hill) you couldn’t tell any difference between how tail happy the new car is vs the old one. 15 mins in and we all played musical chairs with the cars; now over to a PDK Turbo.
I was mightily impressed with the 2 modes of Sport and Sport Plus. The Plus mode really holds the revs right up to the limiter, even when you are not accelerating. Another cool PDK trick is you can actually change up gears just by blipping the throttle. The car certainly feels more eager to accelerate with PDK in SPorts Plus and if anything you seem to feel more thrust after it changes up – I suppose the peak torque is lower in the rev range so this is not that surprising. Forgetting about the gears really lets you concentrate on the balance of the car and you can certainly make faster progress than in the manual.
The real delight of the day though was the launch control session. Completely irrelevant on real world roads but great fun on the track none the less! You put the car into Sports Plus mode, left foot brake, then stamp on the throttle. If you do this too slow then LC won’t come up on the steering wheel. When Launch Control appears you let go of the brake and catapult forwards. I have some footage I just uploaded to YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFgkyCkIQss
We also did some slalom’s through cones to see the PVT in action (although it felt about the same as a gen1 car to me here). I thought the noise of the car is much improved. Not aftermarket levels of noise but still much more how a supercar should sound. It still doesn't make up for a lack of a proper sports exhaust option though.
So all in all, a 997.2 PDK with flappy-paddles is certainly a car to lust after. I think if you are a 997.1 owner then PDK and the improved 3.0 PCM are very tempting options to upgrade to. I myself would spec all the performance goodies plus lightweight wheels and bucket seats if I were to get the new car. Probably with the new aerokit in blue, such as:
Now you guys won’t believe me without some independent testing, but even after all the fun today, I still maintain that my aftermarket mod’ed 997.1 Turbo is superior in almost every respect compared to a 997.2 Turbo (even with PDK). IMHO it has better looking wheels, it goes faster (my 2nd gear G-force is definitely more than PDK 1st gear launches), it sounds better, it handles better (less roll, less squat, sharper steering response, less under-steer, etc), and I think I am just a 'manual transmission in a sportscar' type of a guy. So even if someone gave me a facelift Turbo to garage next to mine, I am sorry to say that it would never get driven. I’d always head straight for the gen1 mod’ed car keys 10/10 times; it’s just so much more involving. So the 991 Turbo will be the next car I consider swapping to.
Just to clarify I would personally rate the cars as follows:
997.1 Turbo (tiptronic) = 15/20
997.1 Turbo (manual) = 16/20
997.2 Turbo (manual) = 17/20
997.2 Turbo (PDK) = 18/20
My modified 997.1 Turbo (manual) = 19/20
My car would be 20/20 if it was better looking (I find the rear 1/4 view including the spoiler not pretty at all) and weighed a few hundred kg less.
Great day out though!!!
Last edited by Alex (UK); 12-02-2009 at 06:53 AM.
