joetwint

This satement alone shows how little you know and understand about chassis dyno's such as the Mustang that Evoms uses to tune their cars.An unloaded Mustang Dyno will generate less horsepower as a result of not having any load to create boost.You need load to generate boost........no load.......no boost .......no boost ......no power.For the same reason if you dyno a 996 0r 997 in fifth gear it will make more power than it does in 4th because of the taller gearing fifth has.For this reason and to gain accurate data most all tuners worth anything will dyno these cars in 4th gear because it is the closest to a 1to1 ratio.Listen,fact is that the fastest Porsches as of now have been built here in the U.S and the data is there to prove it.Anyone who doesn't see or want to recognize this is just kidding themselves.

Red9

The reality is that the US suppliers have quite a lot of happy customers.
The dyno numbers used to market their services are extremely unreliable-no argument from me.Generally speaking far to much HP and torque is being produced to measure accurately- dyno variations, wheelspin,operator competency all contribute to the innacuracy.
Generally speaking - an operator with the best intentions is going to struggle to get accurate readout.What is probably of most use is the comparatives measured on that system in that location with that operator.Trying to make that data travel is always going to be a problem.
The figure that never makes sense to me is the torque numbers quoted.Very hard to measure and derived as a mathamatic calculation to come up with a figure.650 ft lbs is a massive amount of torque.Numbers like that are bandied about like everyone has that much.Almost impossible to measure on a chassis dyno.
Untill appropriate engine dyno is used ( btw who is using one beside Todd K ) and the numbers made public it will remain a guess.
I have another observation re torque and rod bending--- I am thinking that the programming is for "soft" HP . ie the HP is made higher in the rev range( less boost lower down) so that the engine mass is well and truly moving as the max torque figures are achieved- thus less reliance on the rods ??
On that point--KPG current 6 spd thread also comments that he was looking for low down early torque on his built engine-so that comparison is interesting.

bbywu

In reference to stock connecting rod tolerances, the EVOMS shop car was converted to a new 850 kit, with a complete bottom end rebuild, GT30R turbochargers, and option to increase to 3.8L. During their bottom end rebuild, the stock connecting rods were fine...no issues. Prior to conversion, it was run with the EVT700 kit. The car was thoroughly tested for thousands of track miles, hundreds of drag strip runs in Arizona.

I have no idea if the dynos are correct or not. But their standing mile run on US pump gas out ran a RT12.

TB993tt

Joe
How would you explain what I posted originally ? the car measured 730hp/750ftlbs on a Mustang and take a look at the performance numbers as measured independantly - these numbers are more like 600hp/600ftlbs (which as I repeatedly say is still a lot)
I am not doubting that there are a some high boost big power Porsches being built but based on the facts in my first post the evidence seems that not all customers are getting what they think they are getting ?

TB993tt

Jimmer - just to remind myself what sort of person I am interactating with here, you are BLKRKT who made this post to me on Pistonheads right ?




This thread was about discrepances between hp/tq measured and declared accuarate by EVOMS and how that hp/tq performed when independantly tested in terms of acceleration - if you read the first post again and maybe you may have something constructive to add ?

TB993tt

Red
I also thought this may be the answer but 750hp at 6000rpm is still 656ftlbs/900NM so those rods are going to go.....

For those wondering, my personal interest in this is that because of the numbers of rod issues in Europe with the 997tts running 600ftlbs/820NM (engine dyno) my tuner will not install a 650PS/625ftlb(850NM) kit without installing Carillos and I have zero desire to tear down my new(ish) engine....

jimmer23

SO funny! Do you carry that screenprint around in your back pocket and whip it out whenever you have nothing to say? :lol:

I'm not the type to do something as immature as you, so anyone who cares can read that thread themselves and form their own opinion of what kind of bloke you are. You had posted on that thread and on another completely out of order things, and I had enough of it. I'm sure the number of posts like that would increase exponentially if anyone there understood how full of it you are. Pistonheads is useless - you really are in your element there with virtually no real technical discussion and zero debate over your claims ansd random pointless mumblings.

Back to the topic.
Care to answer to any of the questions? What about all of the DATA Toby? The 60-130 which you helped to promote here - how do you think these US numbers are being run? By your logic all of these builds should self-destruct before getting to 130? Maybe you're just wrong and haven't a clue.

TB993tt

Jimmer
In my experience of Porsche Forums you seem to be a bit of a one off and not typical of Porsche owners..... but I guess you are not one are you, just relegated to a fan boy now ?

If you want to contribute to the thread please do, read the original post and fire away....

joetwint

I don't know the particulars of that car or the test (or care to)but have seen many a time a car roll off the dyno after everything is built and making good power ....get it on the street and a boost hose pops off or a boost leak shows up somewhere.......happens all the time with these cars.I also don't know who was driving either.What fuel were they running for the test?Point is there are many factors why the car did not perform as well as it should but I can tell you from experience that a properly running EVT 700 will embarass a stock 997 GT2 in any straight line performance test.Toby,have you ever been in a Evoms EVT700?

TB993tt

I have seen the numbers 0-138mph in 10.7s - that is massively fast, and no I don't think I have ever been in anything that accelerates that fast but clearly this customer car (which EVOMS use extensively in its marketing including using its actual dyno run) is running acceleration numbers of a 620hp/600ftlb engine....

I am pretty sure the owner says everything is well with the car and it had no issues for the test ?

This is the only EVOMS car we have in the UK AFAIK and the owner seems a good guy with no ego issues who seems willing to really enjoy his car, he made the comment somewhere that he is "bored with 700hp" mmmm not sure whether he has ever felt the sort of 700hp which takes you 0-138 in 10.7s ?.

We will hopefully persuade the owner to bring it on a private runway test day in the near future... At what point can we declare the car running "without issues" or will it remain in the "got issues" category whenever it performs like a 620hp/600ftlb car ?

joetwint

[QUOTE=TB993tt;6633329]Actually most EVT 700's with a good driver will run high 10's at 133-134 in good weather in the 1/4 milet.I have never seen one that good just to be fair.


QUOTE]
when it runs or is driven like a Evt 700 is capable of.This one obviously has some problem,a slight boost leak(3lbs is all it would need to lose)that the average driver would not notice.In fact this happened this past weekend on a friends car,he lost 85 hp from 3lbsCar ran absolutely fine otherwise.Seat of the pants on the street on a 700 hp car might not be noticable to everyone.I get it though you are gonna use this one particular example to prove your point but ignore every other fast Porsche tuned by an American company.You have too much time on your hands.

TB993tt

I would love to have other examples to compare but there aren't any over here - my point is/was that this one should be MORE than representative of an EVT700 since this very car is featured heavily in the EVOMS advertising and the dyno sheet from this very car is again featured as what they are selling......so surely this should be a good one to look at ?

And my "point" is not that 700+hp cannot be achieved by US tuners, of course it can and is, I saw KPGs thread with the amazing 60-130. What I am questioning is that these bolt on kits achieve the claimed dyno numbers and if they do, how the hell do they keep their tock rods straight

You must realise that achievements for a Porsche Turbo tuner in Europe is measured in circuit times, racing reliability and to some extent top speed, no one really cares about building high boost motors for drag races so you can unruffle your feathers - your record is unlikely to be challenged by anyone in Europe

PALETTE

Who Said anything about it being a bolt on kit?

Personally there are Hundreds if not thousands of Porsche owners or other Exotic cars that love to hammer the pedal and see what the car will run flat out! Hench the Salt flats, Texas mile and everyone has been to the local drag strip and i am sure you are familiar with 60-130 and we are not talking about weight.
I have a very good friend of mine that races GT3 cup cars and what he likes the most is getting into my car and pulling the gears at 1.4 bar on a straight away, he says the felling is amazing!
enough said!!
i am European but it sounds like some still have there heads in the clouds.

eclou

TB993tt

The car in question IS a bolt on kit ie no rods......with Carrillos and a few other mods like special head sealing, big fuelling, specific (ie for the run in question) intercooling, these engines can achieve what the owners want but they would never be able to run that Autobahn Performance box data log which I posted, that is for sure....