GTR arrives Friday at dealer.
07-23-2008, 02:06 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
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In regards to my TT, everything is for sale if the price is right. 4,321 mi,show room condition. email me if your interested.
07-24-2008, 12:35 AM
#47
Drifting
Good luck with the TT. I'm not in market right now.
07-24-2008, 01:40 AM
#48
Burning Brakes
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selling my TT is out of the question at this point. as standard practice dealers want 10k profit on the transaction. that equates to you selling your p-car at whole sale.
the GTR is due next week by dealer criteria. when ever it hits the ground I will provide pics before it's sold.
the GTR is due next week by dealer criteria. when ever it hits the ground I will provide pics before it's sold.
08-05-2008, 03:44 AM
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If you watch Top Gear they ran the GT-R on their track and it beat out all of the Porsche's including the Carrera GT. Here's their fastest times... and this is done with the normal GT-R and not the Spec V that will be out in a year.
As much as people hate to admit it, the Japanese are raising the bar, which is a good thing in my opinion. And just because it says "Nissan" on it doesn't mean it's a hunk of junk. Granted, it will not hold it's mystique and value like a Porsche but that doesn't mean that it's not a better performer, it just means that Nissan is new to the high end sports car market in the US and hasn't established itself like Porsche has over 60 years. If you remember back a few years the car that held the production car Nurburgring record for quite a while (till Porsche took it back) was the Nissan Skyline GT-R R34. This isn't a new concept on Nissan's part, it's just new to the U.S. And I can tell you from experience that my lowly Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR was more stable at 172mph than my Turbo X50. In fact, when I bought my Porsche, I was mildly disappointed in it's high speed stability after having read all of the hype over the years, and comparing it with a little cheap Evo. After discussing with a Porsche ALMS race team they informed me that's why they use the super ginormous wings and aero kits that they use; the P cars need more downforce. Don't be so closed minded... what's great about a car like the GT-R is that you can flog the ever living hell out of it and not be paranoid about it. It's good guilt, worry, free fun.
Top Gear Test Track Times
1:17.1 – Gumpert Apollo S
1:17.3 – Ascari A10
1:17.6 – Koenigsegg CCX (with "Top Gear Wing")
1:18.4 – Pagani Zonda F
1:18.9 – Maserati MC12
1:19.0 – Ferrari Enzo
1:19.5 – Ariel Atom 2 300
1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R
1:19.7 – Ferrari 430 Scuderia
1:19.8 – Porsche Carrera GT
1:19.8 – Lamborghini Murciélago LP640
1:20.4 – Koenigsegg CCX [6]
1:20.7 – Ascari KZ1
1:20.9 – Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
1:21.2 – Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
1:21.9 – Ford GT
1:22.3 – Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
1:22.3 – Porsche 911 GT3 RS
1:22.4 – Chevrolet Corvette Z06
1:22.5 – Noble M15
1:22.9 – Ferrari F430 F1
1:23.2 – Ferrari F430 Spider F1
1:23.7 – Lamborghini Murciélago (retested)
1:23.8 – Pagani Zonda C12 S 7.3
1:23.9 – Aston Martin DBS
1:23.9 – Koenigsegg CC8S
As much as people hate to admit it, the Japanese are raising the bar, which is a good thing in my opinion. And just because it says "Nissan" on it doesn't mean it's a hunk of junk. Granted, it will not hold it's mystique and value like a Porsche but that doesn't mean that it's not a better performer, it just means that Nissan is new to the high end sports car market in the US and hasn't established itself like Porsche has over 60 years. If you remember back a few years the car that held the production car Nurburgring record for quite a while (till Porsche took it back) was the Nissan Skyline GT-R R34. This isn't a new concept on Nissan's part, it's just new to the U.S. And I can tell you from experience that my lowly Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR was more stable at 172mph than my Turbo X50. In fact, when I bought my Porsche, I was mildly disappointed in it's high speed stability after having read all of the hype over the years, and comparing it with a little cheap Evo. After discussing with a Porsche ALMS race team they informed me that's why they use the super ginormous wings and aero kits that they use; the P cars need more downforce. Don't be so closed minded... what's great about a car like the GT-R is that you can flog the ever living hell out of it and not be paranoid about it. It's good guilt, worry, free fun.
Top Gear Test Track Times
1:17.1 – Gumpert Apollo S
1:17.3 – Ascari A10
1:17.6 – Koenigsegg CCX (with "Top Gear Wing")
1:18.4 – Pagani Zonda F
1:18.9 – Maserati MC12
1:19.0 – Ferrari Enzo
1:19.5 – Ariel Atom 2 300
1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R
1:19.7 – Ferrari 430 Scuderia
1:19.8 – Porsche Carrera GT
1:19.8 – Lamborghini Murciélago LP640
1:20.4 – Koenigsegg CCX [6]
1:20.7 – Ascari KZ1
1:20.9 – Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
1:21.2 – Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
1:21.9 – Ford GT
1:22.3 – Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
1:22.3 – Porsche 911 GT3 RS
1:22.4 – Chevrolet Corvette Z06
1:22.5 – Noble M15
1:22.9 – Ferrari F430 F1
1:23.2 – Ferrari F430 Spider F1
1:23.7 – Lamborghini Murciélago (retested)
1:23.8 – Pagani Zonda C12 S 7.3
1:23.9 – Aston Martin DBS
1:23.9 – Koenigsegg CC8S
08-05-2008, 04:39 AM
#51
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So how come , your weapon of choice, the killer of all, especially closed minded ones like us, super duper GT-R was a dog in the recent C&D test...............it did not even go buck twenty in the 1/4, what "spec" model was that ? The overrated one to fool everyone ? It "won", lol, because of the rear seat and price......................
BTW, Top Gear sucks the big one, always has and always will.
BTW, Top Gear sucks the big one, always has and always will.
08-05-2008, 11:13 AM
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Yea guys let's all just sell our Porsches and buy BMW and Nissan! According to Car and Driver, every car manufacturer " should stop producing their own models and just make M3s." I almost threw up when I read that. And of course, the GTR is the greatest car ever as well because of its backseat and price like pole position just said. Wow, what great, unbiased journalism!! I give credit where credit is due, both the M3 and GTR are great performance cars in their own right, but I'm so sick of reading hopped up mag reviews and looking at the "numbers"...
I can't wait till the GTRs finally get here so we can stop reading mag reviews and see what goes down on the mean streets. To all the future GTR drivers: Bring it!!!
I can't wait till the GTRs finally get here so we can stop reading mag reviews and see what goes down on the mean streets. To all the future GTR drivers: Bring it!!!
08-06-2008, 03:59 AM
#53
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As far as performance and quoted specs goes, it's hard to nail down the GT-R because the motors are all hand assembled and therefore different. Some of the US spec cars have dyno'd at over 500hp to the wheels, and some others less than the spec 480hp. But the GT-R has always been a tuner car. There are numerous R34 versions in the reliable,1,000+ hp range in Japan and Europe, granted, they are 2.6 liter inline 6's where the new one is a V6. But I think Nissan knows that the GT-R's past mystique was due to it's tuning potential and I'd bet that they have left some room on the table for this version to be tuned too, which means more is to come...
Porsche is a great marquee, but I think It has started resting on it's laurels so to say, and in it's hapless journey toward a better bottom line, a lean / streamlined production, and more mass production, it has forgotten it's roots. Unfortunately Porsche is like a politician. It will forgo what is right for the sake of what is popular. It's changed it's pin-point focus off of performance and has encompassed other priorities which although make for a cushy, plush car, have also started the slow evolution into a different type of car company than what it used to be. I worked for PCNA after college, till they moved their headquarters back east. And at the time the company was kind of in limbo. The 993 Turbo was out and was a phenom! It was the last of the raw, performance driver, focused cars. But... Porsche's clientèle was changing... they weren't as hard core, they weren't as concerned with Porsche's racing achievement's. They WERE more concerned with the nicety of the interior and the sounds emanating from the tranny and whether or not they could get it in a cabriolet so all the world could see them.
There was and is still an element within the company that thinks it's racing programs are the most important function to driving advancement but they are a dying breed and will eventually loose out to the bean counters. But Porsche gives it's fans what they want, for good or bad. It realized 2 decades ago that the 911 wasn't the best design for handling but it's clientèle wouldn't allow them to change it. Some factions within the company have fought to do that but still get reeled in by the people that make the final decisions. The original plan for the Cayman was for it to out perform the 911, but in the end they decided that the 911 had to be the top dog...shame. So in Porsche's lapse of performance focus and it's concentration on luxury it has allowed other car companies to catch up in the performance arena. And it seems that every new model year gets watered down even a little more. I only hope that cars like the GT-R will wake them up again and get them focused on what enthusiasts truly crave. But unfortunately there's always the blind devotion crowd that will forgo all logic for the sake of the marquee.
Porsche is a great marquee, but I think It has started resting on it's laurels so to say, and in it's hapless journey toward a better bottom line, a lean / streamlined production, and more mass production, it has forgotten it's roots. Unfortunately Porsche is like a politician. It will forgo what is right for the sake of what is popular. It's changed it's pin-point focus off of performance and has encompassed other priorities which although make for a cushy, plush car, have also started the slow evolution into a different type of car company than what it used to be. I worked for PCNA after college, till they moved their headquarters back east. And at the time the company was kind of in limbo. The 993 Turbo was out and was a phenom! It was the last of the raw, performance driver, focused cars. But... Porsche's clientèle was changing... they weren't as hard core, they weren't as concerned with Porsche's racing achievement's. They WERE more concerned with the nicety of the interior and the sounds emanating from the tranny and whether or not they could get it in a cabriolet so all the world could see them.
There was and is still an element within the company that thinks it's racing programs are the most important function to driving advancement but they are a dying breed and will eventually loose out to the bean counters. But Porsche gives it's fans what they want, for good or bad. It realized 2 decades ago that the 911 wasn't the best design for handling but it's clientèle wouldn't allow them to change it. Some factions within the company have fought to do that but still get reeled in by the people that make the final decisions. The original plan for the Cayman was for it to out perform the 911, but in the end they decided that the 911 had to be the top dog...shame. So in Porsche's lapse of performance focus and it's concentration on luxury it has allowed other car companies to catch up in the performance arena. And it seems that every new model year gets watered down even a little more. I only hope that cars like the GT-R will wake them up again and get them focused on what enthusiasts truly crave. But unfortunately there's always the blind devotion crowd that will forgo all logic for the sake of the marquee.
08-06-2008, 05:27 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Btw, I have a nice beach front property in Montana, sell it to you cheap?
08-06-2008, 10:07 AM
#55
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dustinr, in case you didn't know, Porsche was on the verge of bankruptcy in 1998, in fact they sold less than 3000 cars worldwide that year. That is what sparked their design changes, it's called adaptation to avoid extinction. As far as maintaining the 911 rear engine design, this decision comes from Ferri Porsche himself, as long as the name is porsche there will alwyays be a rear engined car as the flagship. The whole rear engined design IS F. Porsche's legacy, that will NEVER change, if you don't like rear engined cars, don't buy a porsche.
The gtr is not, and never will be on the same plane as even the simplest base 911.
Bringing ringer cars, rolling starts, what kinda bull**** is that?
The gtr is not, and never will be on the same plane as even the simplest base 911.
Bringing ringer cars, rolling starts, what kinda bull**** is that?
08-07-2008, 04:32 AM
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Prime example of Blind devotion above...
Porsche only has 1 rear engined model so they must not be too stuck on the "Legacy."
Porsche's top model is what? Mid-Engined. Their fastest race cars where what? Mid-Engined.
One of the cool things about working for PCNA was that they highly encouraged their employee's to learn the history of the company. Who designed the 911, 908, & 917 (probably the best race car Porsche ever made)? It wasn't Dr. Porsche, it was his nephew Ferdinand Piech, who left Porsche to work for Audi...why? Because in 1972 they decided that no Porsche family member would be allowed to have a management role in the company. So the decision to stick with the rear engine layout wasn't Ferry's. What other rear engined cars did Piech design? None... The Audi 80 and 100 and Quattro, front engined. And although he didn't design it, as CEO of VW he insisted that the Bugatti Veyron be a mid-engined W16. In the 80's Porsche was trying to replace the 911 as their flagship model; they came out with the 928. 911 guys never would accept it. So Porsche thought that if they gave it better performance then it might sway their decisions to accept it. So they kept upping the performance of the 928 from model year to model year in hopes that the 911 guy would convert... he would not and so they kept the 911. Compare a last year 928 GTS with a 911 of the same year and you'll see that the 928 was their nicest, fastest, and most expensive model. So they HAVE tried in the past to replace the 911 but their clientèle wouldn't go for it.
I just don't understand car guys that are so stuck on one brand that they refuse to see any other car as a "good" car. They are so blindly devoted that they even make up excuses and theories as to how any other brand's car that may perform better can do so... i.e. "ringer" cars, etc.
Why did I choose a Porsche? For one, as a kid I can remember my dad watching the movie "Le Mans" and thinking the Gulf cars where cool. Then when I got a little older the fastest production car for the day was a Porsche RUF 930 and I was intrigued that a car that didn't have the bizarre cool looks like the Countach was the fastest car. Then the CTR2 came out some years later and laid waste to everything; I was hooked. So after college I went to work for Porsche Cars North America. My office was attached to the West Coast Distribution Center where the cars where brought to get prepped and inspected before being delivered to the dealers. It was amazing to see the care that they put into their product and it was cool to see so many employees that had true pride in the company. Quite a few German's transplanted to the US to work for Porsche here and they were a plethora of knowledge having worked for the company since it's early days. They were in love with the company too, it had become like their family. So I was impressed with the company after that experience. Plus I like that a Porsche is instantly identifiable. It can't be mistaken for any other car on the road, you see one and you instantly know that it's a Porsche. I also like that they have slowly altered it's shape over the years instead of creating an entirely new look like most companies do; that helps with it's timeless design and resale value. And it's a drivers car... you just don't jump in a 911 and effortlessly drive the thing fast through corners. You have to learn the car and it's dynamics, which is fun. Is it the easiest car to drive fast? No...Is it the most confidence inspiring? No... It takes faith and finesse to drive it proper fast. Is it better than the GT-R? Define better...
Porsche only has 1 rear engined model so they must not be too stuck on the "Legacy."
Porsche's top model is what? Mid-Engined. Their fastest race cars where what? Mid-Engined.
One of the cool things about working for PCNA was that they highly encouraged their employee's to learn the history of the company. Who designed the 911, 908, & 917 (probably the best race car Porsche ever made)? It wasn't Dr. Porsche, it was his nephew Ferdinand Piech, who left Porsche to work for Audi...why? Because in 1972 they decided that no Porsche family member would be allowed to have a management role in the company. So the decision to stick with the rear engine layout wasn't Ferry's. What other rear engined cars did Piech design? None... The Audi 80 and 100 and Quattro, front engined. And although he didn't design it, as CEO of VW he insisted that the Bugatti Veyron be a mid-engined W16. In the 80's Porsche was trying to replace the 911 as their flagship model; they came out with the 928. 911 guys never would accept it. So Porsche thought that if they gave it better performance then it might sway their decisions to accept it. So they kept upping the performance of the 928 from model year to model year in hopes that the 911 guy would convert... he would not and so they kept the 911. Compare a last year 928 GTS with a 911 of the same year and you'll see that the 928 was their nicest, fastest, and most expensive model. So they HAVE tried in the past to replace the 911 but their clientèle wouldn't go for it.
I just don't understand car guys that are so stuck on one brand that they refuse to see any other car as a "good" car. They are so blindly devoted that they even make up excuses and theories as to how any other brand's car that may perform better can do so... i.e. "ringer" cars, etc.
Why did I choose a Porsche? For one, as a kid I can remember my dad watching the movie "Le Mans" and thinking the Gulf cars where cool. Then when I got a little older the fastest production car for the day was a Porsche RUF 930 and I was intrigued that a car that didn't have the bizarre cool looks like the Countach was the fastest car. Then the CTR2 came out some years later and laid waste to everything; I was hooked. So after college I went to work for Porsche Cars North America. My office was attached to the West Coast Distribution Center where the cars where brought to get prepped and inspected before being delivered to the dealers. It was amazing to see the care that they put into their product and it was cool to see so many employees that had true pride in the company. Quite a few German's transplanted to the US to work for Porsche here and they were a plethora of knowledge having worked for the company since it's early days. They were in love with the company too, it had become like their family. So I was impressed with the company after that experience. Plus I like that a Porsche is instantly identifiable. It can't be mistaken for any other car on the road, you see one and you instantly know that it's a Porsche. I also like that they have slowly altered it's shape over the years instead of creating an entirely new look like most companies do; that helps with it's timeless design and resale value. And it's a drivers car... you just don't jump in a 911 and effortlessly drive the thing fast through corners. You have to learn the car and it's dynamics, which is fun. Is it the easiest car to drive fast? No...Is it the most confidence inspiring? No... It takes faith and finesse to drive it proper fast. Is it better than the GT-R? Define better...
08-07-2008, 04:44 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
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dustinr, in case you didn't know, Porsche was on the verge of bankruptcy in 1998, in fact they sold less than 3000 cars worldwide that year. That is what sparked their design changes, it's called adaptation to avoid extinction. As far as maintaining the 911 rear engine design, this decision comes from Ferri Porsche himself, as long as the name is porsche there will alwyays be a rear engined car as the flagship. The whole rear engined design IS F. Porsche's legacy, that will NEVER change, if you don't like rear engined cars, don't buy a porsche.
The gtr is not, and never will be on the same plane as even the simplest base 911.
Bringing ringer cars, rolling starts, what kinda bull**** is that?
The gtr is not, and never will be on the same plane as even the simplest base 911.
Bringing ringer cars, rolling starts, what kinda bull**** is that?
08-07-2008, 05:03 PM
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If you really believe Nissan's story that the big variation on power is due to the hand assembly, then Nissan really have a BIG quality control problem on their hand with the engine process. It's just a lame cover story for Nissan sending out ringer cars.
Btw, I have a nice beach front property in Montana, sell it to you cheap?
Btw, I have a nice beach front property in Montana, sell it to you cheap?
08-07-2008, 05:23 PM
#59
I'm just sayin'....
08-07-2008, 05:41 PM
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dustinr...i enjoyed reading your posts. i love my tt and use it as my dd and i plan to keep her for a long time or even up-grade to the 997 in the future. i will always be a porsche fan. however, i am not blind to the fact that other car makers can make a car of equal or better performance for less money. its always good for someone to come along and shake things up a little...as this will benefit us all in the long run.