Dealer overfills on oil change - Potential long term damage?
06-09-2007, 03:51 PM
#16
Originally Posted by OldGuy
If fluids dont compress then guess what does? the gas, thats how your pressure goes up, if it goes up high enough then guess what gives?
Could you rephrase that in a way that i can understand?
06-09-2007, 04:15 PM
#17
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If you're in a system that has a fluid - a hydraulic system or say a motor -there is the fluid- Oil or hydraulic fluid, and the gas (maybe nitrogen or air) that comprise the system-then when the system volume gets compressed -as you correctly stated the fluid wont compress so the gas does-thus creating more pressure than before the compression-Thats what you are reading with your oil pressure gauge or in a hydraulic system the hydraulic pressure from the pressure transducer that converts pressure to a voltage that moves the gauge(in an analog or digital system). The complete system is designed for a certain amount of pressure during nominal operating conditions. If those are exceeded then something will fail eventually ,say a gasket or seal. Of course even in nominal operating conditions a seal or gasket can wear and then fail over time. But that time will be shortened by exceeding original design operating conditions. In this case, an overfill of oil will increase oil pressure beyond nominal pressures inside the engine and stress all gaskets and seals
but what will happen in the shorterm you will get oil by the rings-hence the smoke and it will continue until the system relieves itself of enough oil(smoke) to get back down to normal operation conditions. This can gum up the catylitic converters and cause them to fail or in an older system just oil up the muffler. In the short term like in this case it was corrected quickly so other than the embarrased tech and the smoke there was probably only minimal damage if any to any seals and gaskets in the motor.
but what will happen in the shorterm you will get oil by the rings-hence the smoke and it will continue until the system relieves itself of enough oil(smoke) to get back down to normal operation conditions. This can gum up the catylitic converters and cause them to fail or in an older system just oil up the muffler. In the short term like in this case it was corrected quickly so other than the embarrased tech and the smoke there was probably only minimal damage if any to any seals and gaskets in the motor.
06-09-2007, 04:30 PM
#18
This cannot possibly be good for a new engine. Oil that is forced into the cylinders and burned off. This sounds unacceptable for any car much less one that costs a small fortune and is brand new. I'm not an engineer but I simply reject the hypothesis that the engine will either seize or it is not damaged at all. Initially inapparent damage short of catstrophic failure that becomes obvious later happens all the time in mechanical systems.
I would have the car inspected by an independant firm. The dealership has business insurance to cover themselves for these types of accidents.
I would have the car inspected by an independant firm. The dealership has business insurance to cover themselves for these types of accidents.
06-09-2007, 05:06 PM
#19
the oil pump moves x amount of fluid per revolution, that is a fixed function it cannot create more pressure then it is designed to, and if somehow it did manage to there is a pressure relif valve. Adding oil does not add pressure.
boolala
You need to look at some pictures of an engine and think about it, theres nothing that can be damaged and not show up imeadatly. I see quick oil chnage places put to much oil in porsches all the time. Ive only seen one that was damaged. Usually the worst case is you have to pull the spark plugs and drain the oil from the cylinders.
The cats wont be damaged .
The car may smoke for a while till it all burns out of the exhaust system.
But besides that................
boolala
You need to look at some pictures of an engine and think about it, theres nothing that can be damaged and not show up imeadatly. I see quick oil chnage places put to much oil in porsches all the time. Ive only seen one that was damaged. Usually the worst case is you have to pull the spark plugs and drain the oil from the cylinders.
The cats wont be damaged .
The car may smoke for a while till it all burns out of the exhaust system.
But besides that................
06-09-2007, 05:19 PM
#20
independent firm heres how thats gonna go.
well sir we need to pull your spark plugs to do a compression test
that will be about 8 hours @ xxx$ per hour
ok your compression is fine
now we need to do a leak down
that will be another 4 hours @ xxx$
nope thats good too .
so now we will have to remove the engine and tear it down to the crank
to visualy inspect everything
that will be 50 hours and chances are it will never run again
have the dealer document your vist have them open a repair order for customer states vechile smoking.
Make sure they write their story as
found oil level to be over maxium level from recent oil change performed (date) and repair order number.
If you have any issues your then covered.
The cars under warrenty, if it breaks its warrenty,
well sir we need to pull your spark plugs to do a compression test
that will be about 8 hours @ xxx$ per hour
ok your compression is fine
now we need to do a leak down
that will be another 4 hours @ xxx$
nope thats good too .
so now we will have to remove the engine and tear it down to the crank
to visualy inspect everything
that will be 50 hours and chances are it will never run again
have the dealer document your vist have them open a repair order for customer states vechile smoking.
Make sure they write their story as
found oil level to be over maxium level from recent oil change performed (date) and repair order number.
If you have any issues your then covered.
The cars under warrenty, if it breaks its warrenty,
06-09-2007, 05:27 PM
#21
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Sheesh I was thinking so basic I forgot about pop offs, relief valves pressure diverters etc, I was thinking inside the oil pump/sump tank
BUT the excess oil can go by the rings and foul the catylitics or in pre 74 system oil up the muffler
if done for too long.
See this months Excellence for an overfill article on this very question on the dry sump system.
BUT the excess oil can go by the rings and foul the catylitics or in pre 74 system oil up the muffler
if done for too long.
See this months Excellence for an overfill article on this very question on the dry sump system.
