AAHTT

I took the TT out to its first DE on saturday and wanted to share some interesting findings.
Since I had not done any track time in it yet, I decided to start the first run with sport mode OFF and PSM ON. Even though I had no trouble passing everyone on the straights, I noticed the car was understeering a lot and thought it was due to tire pressure. After the run I checked the temps and they were pretty even across the treads. I decided to put sport mode ON and kept PSM ON, but the second run was even worse as far as understeer and very little oversteer.
After getting more confortable with the track, I decided to go with sport mode OFF and PSM OFF and the car's balance improved so much I couldn't believe it, no more understeer and throttle oversteer made the car much quicker in the turns, it wasn't fighting me anymore.
On the last run I used sport mode ON and PSM OFF and that was the most fun I ever had in a long time in a car. Not the fastest way around the track but certainly the best setting for drifting.
During all runs, PASM was on all the time.
I also noticed that a full tank of gas was only good for 4 runs, 20 minutes each with an average of 6-8mpg!!
I really would like to hear about anyone else's experience/advise with the sport mode/PSM situation on the track.

JEC_31

I am reminded of Mario Andretti's comment a few years back on how he did not like traction control systems because he didn't want anything taking control away from him.

eclou

running on the PS2's? I'd ditch those for some Hoosiers on the track. The handling improves by the same order of magnitude that the engine does from the ECU mod.

AAHTT

Yes PS2s. I assume Hoosiers are available in the same sizes?

B-Line

Hoosiers don't have a long life span and are costly. I would go with a compromise. Something that will give you increased grip but will also not cost you $1500 every time you go the track.

I use Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires. They are DOT rated but have a TON of grip..

B

eclou

Hoosier R6's come in 235/35/19 fr and 295/30/19 rear with the same rolling diameters as stock. If you don't have PCCB, you can go to 18" sizes like I did running C4 offset carrera III wheels with 245/35/18 and 305/30/18 rear tires. The diameters in the 18" sizes are smaller but the f/r ratio is within <1% difference than stock. No error lights, and they are super light. The level of grip on the R6 is far beyond that of the MPSC. Hoosiers also cost 30% less than the MPSC in 19" sizes, and 70% less in 18" sizes (a secret). I don't see any reason to shod a supercar with mediocre track tires. You bought the best, give it the best accessories.

AAHTT

Thanks Eugene, how many DE days would you say the hoosiers will last (5 runs, 20 minutes each)? with the 19s.

eclou

I have run 2 weekends with them, me in advanced solo and my wife in intermediate solo. That's at least 20 heat cycles so far and more than 50% tread left. Mind you, I'm only driving at perhaps 8/10th's since I have a dedicated track car to thrash.

B-Line

EC,
You and I should have our own forum to debate Pcar issues, lol..

First, how can you call a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup a mediocre tire? What ever your smoking, I'd like you to pass it to the left.
Second, correct me if I'm wrong here, but Hoosier's are not DOT approved. Which means, you either have to travel to and from the track on tires that have no tolerance for the elements, or, you need to have a support vehicle at the track with you. Last time I checked, you could not fit a set of C4 offset carrera III wheels in the back seats and trunk.
Lastly, you might be right about Hoosier's being less expensive, "to buy," but that does not mean they are less expensive to run. You will not get near the amount of heat cycles in em you do in the MPCS.

B-Line

EC,

Maybe I am completely wrong here, but I have never heard of anyone getting 40 heat cycles out of Hoosiers..
I actually hope I am wrong, because if what you are saying is true, I will gladly make a switch.
But when I used to run with Porsche Bmw Owners Club Florida, (the SE version of POC,) all the racers used to run Hoosiers and they were going through Hoosiers like it was fuel.

B

eclou

B,

the N rated 19" MPSC are nowhere near the old MPSC we are used to. They are a dumbed-down version which is more akin to a rain-tire. Damon at the Tire Rack did a good comparison of the 2. They probably will outlast a Hoosier by 50% but who cares? No one is pinching pennies in a $130k+ car. The GT3/RS guys are getting only about 3 weekends out of the new tires anyway.

With the Hoosiers you do need to (supposedly) transport them with you as they are not street legal. I tow my cars to the track anyhow so it is of no added hassle to me. As far as longevity again I am not pushing my TT as hard as I push my 944 turbo. With the 944 turbo I am getting perhaps 20 heat cycles out of the 17" R6's (R6's btw are more durable than the older R3S03, S04, S05 tires and closer to the Grand Am Cups in longevity). The R6's are designed to make it through an enduro - the VRL (Viper Racing League) uses the R6 compound for its sprint and enduros. I think you would be really, really enamoured with the R6's. They completely change the handling characteristics and make the TT feel even spry.

B-Line

EC,

I should be clear. I track the TT but not nearly as much as I track my 993 C2S. When I do track the TT, I am on the stock/street setup. So, I'm really talking about the 18" not the 19".. But I did not know there was a difference between those two tires. And I've always found the 18" to be good for DE's. I don't like to have TOOO much grip for DE's.. You get better training and feedback from a tire with a bit of give. If I were racing, I want the fastest, but when I'm training, i want a compromise of speed and "education" from the tire.

- Also, when I do go to the track, my brother and I share a car. I would say, we are both fairly aggressive drivers (we both race the Skip Barber R/T 2000 regional series).. And our tires must last both of us, for a weekend at least.

So that 50% you talk about is the difference between getting one weekend or two weekends out of a tire. So you and your wife might not drive your Hoosiers at 100% at a DE, but my bro and I run our 993 C2S on MCPS pretty damn hard. It's not about pinching pennies, it's about finding a cost effective, good training tire, that has longetivity and grip.

Sometimes we tow, sometimes we drive to the track, it depends if one or both of us are going and how far the track is. If it's local, we street it, if it's 500 miles away, we trailer, just so if something breaks, we can get the car home.

Again, Hoosiers are great tires.. I just don't think they are neccessarily the BEST solution for a driving school. I know they have a ton of grip, maybe too much for a DE at too high a price..


Just my .02

eclou

Agreed B, but I would also say that the TT is a bit pricey to be a track warrior. Even though I don't push the TT near 100%, I use Hoosiers to give the car plenty of grip in reserve so that the unthinkable doesn't happen. It's like insurance against plowing into the infield. There have been several people over on the GT3 boards who have already gone offroading with mixed consequences.

B-Line

EC,

Why don't you come join us for a Skip Barber Race weekend??
It's pretty awesome. If you can drive one of these cars fast, you can drive anything..



B

eclou

That looks awesome!

Unfortunately with my 16 mos old twins track time is becoming more and more precious. I usually sneak out of work to test n' tune sessions on slow afternoons. Weekend passes only get granted when the sun and stars align - baby sitters, wife drives as well, weather permitting, etc