Pole Position-

Having worked at the N'Ring, they may be the publisher, but the track keeps its own registry of lap times.

 

Walter Rohrl said it best when asked what was the one criticism of Porsche he had...."Weight"

 

I personally like pcar's posts, since otherwise this could be a boring place where people just self congratulate each other. Now going back to turbo engine.

The basic turbo engine design trade-off is that a turbo engine is more complex and expensive, but in return has higher power to weight ratio. Now the fact is that 997 turbo engine is heavier than the simple pushrod Z06 engine, and turbo has lower power. Thus we have an apparent contradiction of the basic turbo trade-off. I thought the discussion would try to explain the contradiction. Is Z06 a miracle work, or is 997 turbo engine needlessly heavy, or did the Porsche standard turbo layout (boxer with turbos on the sides and intercooler above got obsolete by a Z06 pushrod? Keep in mind that the old V8 pushrod layout has always been an extremely compact package. A compact package implemented in expensive light materials yields a very light small engine.

Since people been asking, I purchased my garage queen C4S new about 10 years ago and will keep it for many many years. I have never driven (even as a passenger) in any other Porsche or a Corvette car. But my question is technical, not about driving.

 

The 997TT engine is not lower in power output than the Z06 motor. If it was, the 997 would certainly be slower by a fair amount given its penalties of weight and 4wd. That is not the case, and if you look beyond published peak tq and hp #'s you will see that the turbo motor has more power under the curve than the Z06.

Also, a simple ECU program will add upwards of 80 hp to the 997TT motor, whereas the Z06 needs to get cams and headwork to make such an upwards jump. Granted, the cams and headwork on the LS7 may be cheaper than an ECU flash on the 997TT... People have successfully tuned the 996TT motor to 800hp without internal modifications to the motor. There is no reason to expect the same will not occur in the 997TT

 

Anyone who discusses the new Z06 engine in terms of reliability is talking out of their a$$. This is the first really new engine for the Corvette since the 1990 ZR1......and they had to farm that one out to Mercury Marine.

Great car......but lots of new technology that still needs to withstand the test of time.

As far as weight savings, some of the options are:
GT3 seats -100 lbs
LWFW -10 lbs
remove back seats -20 lbs
Exhaust -35 lbs
Wheels -16 lbs
Battery -15 lbs

So thats 197 lbs off thats easy...then you get to stuff like:

CF hood
Remove AC
Plug sunroof
Remove carpeting/sound proofing
Remove stereo

 

800HP sounds very inviting. I suppose the P-car can handle the power with ease without having to change much?

 

Allegretto-

Hendrix revolutionized 20th century rock music. Guitar Player magazine - "Widely recognized as the most influential musician of the 20th century, Hendrix was a dynamic and mesmerizing guitar virtuoso who pioneered the explosive possibilities of the electric guitar..."

Although probably an overstatement, having seen him in concert 12 times, I can only agree with that statement as a guitarist who plays jazz.

 

although the starting post is not worth discussing, what I would like to hear about is the upgrades in the 997tt engine compared to 996 and 993 engine.

Besides the VTG would you say that the progress from 993 to 996 is bigger than that from 996 to 997?
What did Porsche do to get a more efficient engine in the 997tt?
What do you think the hp/tq output would be with a K24 from the 996 X50?

 

Bombastic overkill I'd say. No doubt he was watershed. He bent tones in a unique way. But his scales and progressions were Blues, Blues and more Blues. You do know what I am saying!

Personally I prefer Stevie Ray's interpretation of the genre, but that's taste. And of course You'd be right to note that SRV was deeply influenced by Hendrix. I just like Stevie's picking and timing better.

Either way...I can only dream

 

Interesting how the "embarrassing" 997TT engine stacked up against the Z06 in Car and Driver's test of the 6-speed and tiptronic turbos (http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...tiptronic.html) :

"From there, it continues to gain ground and edges out the manual in the quarter-mile by a scant 0.1 second—11.6 seconds at 122 mph versus 11.7 at 121—and it stays ahead the rest of the way, hitting 160 mph in 22.1 seconds versus 23.8. In case you're wondering, that quarter-mile time is better than the quickest 505-hp Corvette Z06 we've tested."

The smaller, heavier, "too complex" 997TT engine seems to have something on the lighter, bigger, and "simpler" Z06. The mechanical engineer in me asks: "just which engineering team did a better job at the purest test of engine output - straight line acceleration?"

Anyway - I think both cars are fine and by no means is the word "embarrassment" applicable to any aspect of either car.

 

Exactly. The Z06 is a heck of a car and I applaud GM for keeping it alive and competitive. We need the Z06 and the like to keep Porsche honest.

 

These threads usually become contentious and degenerate into personal attacks and endless rhetoric.

Can't everyone just enjoy the cars for what they are? The truth is that they are both very nice cars and enjoyable to own and drive. The Z06 is perhaps one of the best automotive bargains on the planet and once you get behind the wheel, it is hard to stop the smiles. The 997TT is a wonderful engineering marvel and is a work of art in almost every respect.

I speak from experience, as many of you know, I own and drive both cars and unlike this thread, the two cars sit side by side every night in the garage and I haven't heard one argument out of either of them!

Here is a photo of Sammy and his brother from Premier installing a clear bra on our Z06 next to the 997TT (by the way, Sammy is a well known sponsor on Rennlist and does amazing installations):

 

Mastiff - Agree with you 100%

I said by my post as well:

"I think both cars are fine and by no means is the word "embarrassment" applicable to any aspect of either car."

 

In all fairness, AWD helps the 997TT start out faster, but eventually the Z06 will pass it. Pretty much all tests have shown the Z06 to be roughly equivalent or faster than the 997TT up to the quarter mile mark, and all have shown it to be faster after that. I'm a fan of both cars and would choose the 997TT over the Z06, but I sure wouldn't mind having a larger displacement naturally-aspirated engine that body instead of a turbo.

 

Both cars are great - 911TT and Z06. But the 997 Turbo is faster, even on street tires, then the Z06, on the standard by which road racing is judged - the Nurburgring:

7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h -- Corvette Z06, 500 PS/1319 kg, Jan Magnusen, slicks, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05),