C4S-X51 vs. 997TT
02-13-2006, 11:04 PM
#16
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u're saving 10k now but in resale u're looking for 30k+ lost in difference. while ordering a car the way u want it is important, just remember all the options will worth almost for nothing later.
02-13-2006, 11:06 PM
#17
Originally Posted by bravocharlie
I was just about to order a C4S with X51. You can read about the specs. in this thread: C4S-X51 Order Specs.
However, after reading the specifications of the new 997TT that Porsche finally released today, I've reconsidered. I had never really considered the TT due to the presumed high cost but after I compared my optioned C4S with the X51 package, I decided to create a spreadsheet and see what the real numbers were.
First, I was pleasantly surprised that the base cost of the TT is $122,900. While this is significantly higher than the C4S, it comes with a host of standard features that were options on the C4S. Unfortunately, the official order guides are still not available at the Porsche dealer, but by sifting through the narrative and text found on Porsche's website regarding the TT, I was able to determine (more or less) what was being offered as standard features.
In summary, $10,000 will get you 99 more horsepower and to 60 m.p.h. in 0.70 of a second faster and an additional 154 lbs. - ft. in torque.
Below is a spreadsheet showing the differences between the two models based on the options that I originally selected for the C4S-X51.
Spreadsheet
However, after reading the specifications of the new 997TT that Porsche finally released today, I've reconsidered. I had never really considered the TT due to the presumed high cost but after I compared my optioned C4S with the X51 package, I decided to create a spreadsheet and see what the real numbers were.
First, I was pleasantly surprised that the base cost of the TT is $122,900. While this is significantly higher than the C4S, it comes with a host of standard features that were options on the C4S. Unfortunately, the official order guides are still not available at the Porsche dealer, but by sifting through the narrative and text found on Porsche's website regarding the TT, I was able to determine (more or less) what was being offered as standard features.
In summary, $10,000 will get you 99 more horsepower and to 60 m.p.h. in 0.70 of a second faster and an additional 154 lbs. - ft. in torque.
Below is a spreadsheet showing the differences between the two models based on the options that I originally selected for the C4S-X51.
Spreadsheet
As a computer engineer I completely applaud your side by side spreadsheet. Marketing people will wonder where the pie charts are, but for me it is perfect.
The difference in cost for me is a about 15k since I am getting the 997s C2, but for 15k I get a lot more hp.
I agree with the resale value and the fact that the 997s with x51 is a 107k car for me that looks nearly exactly the same as the base 911 that can be had for 75k is not thrilling to me.
The turbo looks awesome.
What is the gt3 going to price out at??
02-13-2006, 11:11 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by 20C4S
u're saving 10k now but in resale u're looking for 30k+ lost in difference. while ordering a car the way u want it is important, just remember all the options will worth almost for nothing later.
All said and done he will loose the same amount on each car, so he should get the turbo.
02-13-2006, 11:17 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by SciFrog
Sadly the X51 fall into the options also along the $10K of options on his 997S which is standard on the turbo.
All said and done he will loose the same amount on each car, so he should get the turbo.
All said and done he will loose the same amount on each car, so he should get the turbo.
02-13-2006, 11:59 PM
#22
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BC,
Great analysis! I have been going through the same decision process - the C4S I have on order has almost exactly the same specs (Cocoa instead of Black, and the inclusion of PCCBs being the only differences). For me it came down to two areas: 1. exterior styling and 2. engine characteristics.
1. I really like the clean, classic lines of the Carrera. The air scoops and large wing on the TT are very boy racerish to me. That's my humble opinion.
2. I much prefer linear delivery, high revving normally aspirated engines. Maybe VTG has improved the on/off switch power delivery of the 996 TT but the max power still peaks at 6,000 RPM so revving past this doesn't gain you a whole lot. Before all the pro-turbo guys start crucifying me - THIS IS PURELY A PERSONAL PREFERENCE! Some people like high revving (almost always low torque) engines and others like high torque (turbo, supercharged, big displacement) engines. And I have always prefered driving high specific output, naturally aspirated engines (Prelude SH, 330Ci w/ Dinan, F355 Spider, BMW K1200 R). Everything I have read from test drivers to people on this forum is that the X51 really allows the 3.8L to breath and rip through the powerband. I'm looking forward to this.
Regarding money, I have to say everyone is 100% correct that from a residual value perspective, the answer is clear - the TT will hold it's value better - that's not debatable (I just traded in a 997 C2S Cab very loaded and had to stomach a hit).
The other thing that's also not debatable is that the TT will out accelerate the C4S every time.
Here's the way I look at it:
Exterior Styling - purely personal
Engine Characteristics - personal (naturally aspirated vs. forced induction)
Residual Value - TT
Acceleration & Top Speed - TT
Handling - Draw (C4S weighs 200 lbs less, TT has a more advanced 4 wheel drive distribution system)
Braking - Draw (C4S has the same pre-filling and brake assist features as the TT, the upgraded brakes (PCCB) on the TT are larger than the PCCB's on the C4S, but the C4S weighs 200lbs less)
Good luck. Either way you are going to have an amazing car! Keep us posted on your decision.
- Tom
Great analysis! I have been going through the same decision process - the C4S I have on order has almost exactly the same specs (Cocoa instead of Black, and the inclusion of PCCBs being the only differences). For me it came down to two areas: 1. exterior styling and 2. engine characteristics.
1. I really like the clean, classic lines of the Carrera. The air scoops and large wing on the TT are very boy racerish to me. That's my humble opinion.
2. I much prefer linear delivery, high revving normally aspirated engines. Maybe VTG has improved the on/off switch power delivery of the 996 TT but the max power still peaks at 6,000 RPM so revving past this doesn't gain you a whole lot. Before all the pro-turbo guys start crucifying me - THIS IS PURELY A PERSONAL PREFERENCE! Some people like high revving (almost always low torque) engines and others like high torque (turbo, supercharged, big displacement) engines. And I have always prefered driving high specific output, naturally aspirated engines (Prelude SH, 330Ci w/ Dinan, F355 Spider, BMW K1200 R). Everything I have read from test drivers to people on this forum is that the X51 really allows the 3.8L to breath and rip through the powerband. I'm looking forward to this.
Regarding money, I have to say everyone is 100% correct that from a residual value perspective, the answer is clear - the TT will hold it's value better - that's not debatable (I just traded in a 997 C2S Cab very loaded and had to stomach a hit).
The other thing that's also not debatable is that the TT will out accelerate the C4S every time.
Here's the way I look at it:
Exterior Styling - purely personal
Engine Characteristics - personal (naturally aspirated vs. forced induction)
Residual Value - TT
Acceleration & Top Speed - TT
Handling - Draw (C4S weighs 200 lbs less, TT has a more advanced 4 wheel drive distribution system)
Braking - Draw (C4S has the same pre-filling and brake assist features as the TT, the upgraded brakes (PCCB) on the TT are larger than the PCCB's on the C4S, but the C4S weighs 200lbs less)
Good luck. Either way you are going to have an amazing car! Keep us posted on your decision.
- Tom
02-14-2006, 12:08 AM
#23
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Thanks for the input. You're certainly correct that everyone has a personal preference. Your comments regading the TT looking boy racerish is sort of how I feel about how the GT3 looks with the wing on the back.
I wonder if others will chime in on the reliablity / maintenance of the twin turbos compared to the normally aspirated models.
I wonder if others will chime in on the reliablity / maintenance of the twin turbos compared to the normally aspirated models.
02-14-2006, 04:45 AM
#24
the turbo is obviously a more exciting performer. i have an 03tt. i had before it an 01 c4-there is no comparison. but don't fool yourselves into thinking that they will not depreciate aggressively. on the best day of the week, my tt with 38k miles (msrp 122k) will get me a trade in of 67k. i do agree that a highly optioned 997 will suffer, but so will a highly optioned 997tt-the problem on resale is with the highly optioned status. look what happened to the x50 996 turbos with carbon fiber, etc. resale wise might be a base 997s, or maybe even a base 997. if you can afford the turbo, go get it, but don't convince yourself that resale wise, that you will do so much better that a 997-the key is to keep away from the highly optioned cars, tt vs 997. learn from history.
02-14-2006, 09:32 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by crispenigl
BC,
Where did you find the pricing?
I didnt see it on the porsche.com site.
Damm - I cant sleep
Where did you find the pricing?
I didnt see it on the porsche.com site.
Damm - I cant sleep
I then used the options found on Porsche's configurator to determine option codes and retatil pricing for the various options.
02-14-2006, 12:08 PM
#29
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I'm sure you're not the only person who is wrestling with this same comparison,--and if Porsche is smart they have done the same thing. (And they are). I, too, went through the same thought process but fall into a different category,--I really want a cabriolet this time, and the wait time for a turbo cab would be just too long. So I elected to go for a seriously loaded 997S cab instead of a lean turbo. I, for one, believe in the PCCBs, and noticed that Porsche has conveniently left them off the base Turbo. The other big factor is fundamental. Where are you going to use all that HP in America? While living in Europe I actually got to USE the advantages of a large machine, but in the States we're faced with a greater police presence than ever before, and the only alternative is the track,--and I would like to enjoy my car more regularly, and not just during a track event. I enjoyed a turbo many years ago back when the performance delta wasn't so great) and liked it but prefer the refinement of a car than CAN go that fast but doesn't have to.
Dan
Dan
02-14-2006, 01:12 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by mrpc12
I highly doubt you will get any dealer discount on the 997TT for at least 18 months.