E30toF30

Hey all,

I've been lurking as a non-member for a while now and decided to join as I may be looking to make an offer on a local 09 997.1 turbo that I took a look at last night. It was not planned as I was looking to possibly buy something next year, but this 09 manual came up out of nowhere on a private sale and it was spec'd pretty damn near exactly how I would like it (except colour is not first choice).

Anyway, its currently sitting at just under 87,000km (54,375 miles).
The current (2nd owner) has owned it a few months shy of 3 years and driven it about 20,000km (12,500 miles)
During his ownership, its been serviced regularly at a reputable/well known independent Porsche shop so I'm comfortable that the car has been maintained properly and regularly - your annual brake fluid replacement, cabin/air filter replacement, drive belts replaced a year ago,

A couple things that concern me a little bit:
- when the current owner bought the car, he had a shop do a compression/leakdown test and DME report. Everything came out great except there were about a dozen blips on range 4.
- coming up on almost 100,000km, should I anticipate certain items that may need to be addressed in the near future? Clutch, Flyewheel, etc...
- If clutch needs to be done, then from what I've read, that would be the time to get the coolant pipes/cam sleeves welded/pinned at the same time correct?
- any other 100,000km milestone item that need to be addressed?

I do of course plan on having another PPI done along with another compression and leakdown test and DME report. Pending everything comes back fine and there are no increase in range 4/5/6 blips, I'm prepared to buy the car.

However, I'm looking for some help on confirming the upcoming work that would need to be done (including that listed above and possibly some others) and what the average/typical cost of this work will be. I want to be able to take that back to the seller as part of the negotiation. I'm a fair guy though and his asking price is already fair. But I'd go back to him looking to split the difference (or thereabouts) on these potential upcoming costs I need to take into consideration when buying a 10 year old car with almost 100,000km.

Thanks all!

**I spent about an hour searching for other threads that may address this but i was unsuccessful in finding something that was able to provide the info I needed.

TTG

Did you do DME reports on your E30 or F30 before you bought them? Especially on a E30 (if that technology existed back then), results would of REALLY surprised you if you bought it used.

Point is, do not pay that much attention to DME. If the car passes PPI fine and you like the overall condition of it, just buy it.

You are buying something close to a supercar and it will need maintenance. Yes, if the engine comes down, there are many things to repair / update while you are in there type of a thing.

Not that many 09 cars are reporting coolant pipe issues as Porsche pretty much fixed the problem by then. But if it will make you sleep better at night, you might as well do it especially if you are going to track / race your car. I am not planning on doing coolant pipes on my 2007 until my shop tells me to do so. Last time when I brought to their attention, they laughed at me and asked me to stop reading the forums!

Hope this helps, keep us posted.

lflouie

First off, a great year.

09 do NOT have cooling pipe issues....the 07 and early 08s did.

DME report: it's not the numberber of times but the count that matters. If I recall correctly a reading of 600 would roughly equal 0.5 sec of cumulative over revs........a very small number....especially if it was more than one instance (which you can't tell from report). Regarding when it occurred, In general, if you divide the miles since last occurrence by an average of 30 mph, you'd get the hours since the last event. Porsche recommends 90 hours = approx 2700 hours as the point they will warranty a Rev 4 over rev.

I don't recall the recommend 09 plug change interval (changed from yr to yr) but if it hasn't been done in the last few years you're likely due or will be due. If you're going to do plugs, recommend coil packs at the same time.

Due to age, the driveline fluids are coming up on the 12 yr recommended replacement, consider doing it early (roughly $600-700 at an Indy).

If you have the original clutch you are certainly getting near the likely time/mileage for a replacement...however, a gently driven car can go another 30km or more. Have it inspected/measured.

The Cam issue is hit or miss...again if car was gently used (not raced) it is a low failure incident.

A couple of things to check:

Engine mounts: these have a tendency to fail/degrade over time, as well as the transmission mounts. Both of these can be replaced wo/dropping engine.....parts are roughly $600.

Clutch accumulator/slave cyl. can leak. Have dealer check for signs of fluid leakage at slave, PS pump , Clutch fluid reservoir, and do a "manual pump test" of clutch pedal.

Was fuel filter changed and tire inflation kit replaced in the past 4 yrs?

Lastly, if you are planning to keep the car for a number of yrs and really concerned about the cost of failures the cams, clutch slave/accumulator, or other major repairs (excluding "wear items"), you might want to consider a Fidelity Platinum extended warranty. I know for an 07tt, the cost was roughly 700 -900/yr of coverage. Obviously a clutch wouldn't be covered but the Platinum warranty is available for an 09, but not from Porsche (to my knowledge).

Basically boils down to how much "insurance", if any, that you'd like to feel comfortable. Almost any repair that requires an engine drop starts at $1800 plus repairs. Clutch slave and accumulator replacement are roughly $2500. Cam fix is $$$$$.

E30toF30

Thanks for the honest response! But no to the DME report on the E30 and F30 as I was the first owner of those cars lol (but i do get your point).

E30toF30

Much appreciated! Thanks for the in depth feedback!

TT.BRN

Not sue where the myth of 09 coolant pipes started ... I could tell you this, mine is a 09 and it had 2 of the 7 coolant pipes completely loose and only held in place by the rigidity of the rubber hose attached. Have seen at least 3 other examples of 09's with the exact same failure, and I live on a small island.

imo, it is valid to expect a premium on your car if you have done the cams/coolant fittings, but can't really ask for a discount if it has not been done, just an honest opinion. If you can prove it's actuvely leaking however you can ask for a fix or a discount.

I also agree overrev reports are over-rated. My engine only has stronger rods and studs, completely stock head and valvetrain with maxed out range 4, no issues, if you have a turbocharged sports car chances are you will drive it to redline, repeatedly .... Mechanical overrev usually kills these engines riht there and then, saw it several times with GT3 motors and drivers with more money than skill.

A regular PPI will miss so much and is extremely operator dependent. By all means get one but also check for yourself for coolant leaks with a boroscope (check all 7).

If you have a durametric cable just log cam position nominal vs actual, simply blipping the throttle in neutral all 4 lines should move together, a slow "actual" graph is a spun cam, the ecu throws the code very late.

good luck

HBi_Auto

Yes I agree with the above. I think the rev report is fine as long as nothing recent has came from it. Does he have all of the records? I would be happy to look through them and tell you if they look good for the car. I own a 997.1 Turbo as well.

Things to look at

• Slave cylinder block for leaks
• Coolant pipes
• RMS (common)
• DME Revs
• Front CV boots
• Front differential leaks
• Front strut mounts
• Engine/Trans mounts

For the most part, these are great cars and don't have many issues from my experience in owning one and also as a service shop owner. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Bxstr

As others have said, get a PPI with a DME report. But the DME report can only tell you so much. If I took the car up to 6k everyday on a cold engine, that will never show up. Whereas someone that got to redline on a warm engine would show up.

Also paint meter it, Carfax shows many things, but not all.

Also, like has been mentioned, all of the Mezger engines have the coolant pipe issue, regardless of year.

Ruskiy

How do you “look”/inspect coolant pipes and have the ability to tell if they’re on a verge of popping out? Any signs aside from leaks?

Also, possible to do engine in and if so from what angle?

HBi_Auto

Sometimes you can see a slight coolant trail... a boroscope does help. It is very difficult to see without moving a lot of components and utilizing a horoscope tool. Usually failure is caught to late.

nzskater

My car is a Sagittarius, didn't help much with coolant leak diagnostics however...

lflouie

The coolant pipe/hose connection failures can sometimes be detected visually, as mentioned earlier, by visually inspecting each hose pipe fitting for traces of coolant seepage. It is a lengthy process to be able to access each fitting bc they are buried under under other components. You can readily see a few, but many require parts removal for an engine in inspection.

Generally there isn't any detectable pre-failure mode, it is a digital failure...good (not leaking) or failed. In atleast one case I've heard of someone heckling their hoses and actually finding that the rubber hose itself was the only thing preventing the failure....but I think it was just a lucky coincidence.

If you were dropping the engine for other work, then yes you could check each one....or better yet just do the preventive pipe fix.

Radmd74

Awesome advice on "maintenance" to folllow for a purchase especially if NO hard records are available or in Carfax?

When you mention driveline fluids, reference to?

lflouie

Porsche recommends that the AWD controller, front dif, and rear dif/transaxle fluids are changed at 12 yrs or 100k mi. If you have the rear axle locking feature, it requires a different fluid than the non-axle lock models. Any good indy shop can do it or the take to dealer. Of course the normal 2 yr brake flush should also be done.

I'm rather conservative when it comes to fluids/maintenance, so I have the coolant checked to ensure that it is still "in-spec".....changing the coolant requires roughly 3 gals of Porsche coolant (mixed with 3 gals water)...approx $150.

Radmd74

Got it. Do you have a list of things to maintain or replace on a 12 yr old car (w 21 k miles? would be good to have a list to go over with an Indy shop. Feel free to dm or pm me.