997 Turbo Electrical Issues
02-17-2019, 01:59 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Unless you are like me and cannot stand not knowing the answer to something, I like the above post.
My only stray thought is what if the old pill is still rolling around the car? Once your program the 2 new keys/pills will it ignore another pill if it suddenly comes back to life?
Ed
My only stray thought is what if the old pill is still rolling around the car? Once your program the 2 new keys/pills will it ignore another pill if it suddenly comes back to life?
Ed
02-20-2019, 11:07 AM
#32
Track Day
Thread Starter
Thanks guys, I want to know what the hell is going on. I contacted the previous owner (original owner) who replied with “no clue” as his only reply to detailed nonaccusatory and friendly inquiry regarding my issue of the missing pills. Gentle further prodding just resulted in complete disregard so..
Porsche dealership in Houston where the car was purchased tried to be helpful but were also clueless.
Have an appointment to flatbed to Porsche service next Wednesday (hopefully no rain cause windows stuck down). I think I’ll buy the key heads and take them with me.
Porsche dealership in Houston where the car was purchased tried to be helpful but were also clueless.
Have an appointment to flatbed to Porsche service next Wednesday (hopefully no rain cause windows stuck down). I think I’ll buy the key heads and take them with me.
02-22-2019, 03:45 PM
#33
Track Day
Thread Starter
Update. The car is at the dealership service department. Mechanic is knowledgeable and a good guy but he seems pretty stumped as well. So far he has not been able to get the Porsche PIWIS scanner to communicate with the car. Plan is to try to program a new “pill” to see if that will fix the issue. My concern is if there is an old transponder hidden somewhere, can he even program a new one. At this point he says that the ECU doesn’t see any transponder so maybe that will work.
02-22-2019, 04:36 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
That was exactly my thought above. Can't wait to here the resolution.
Ed
Ed
02-25-2019, 09:15 PM
#36
Track Day
Thread Starter
Update. The car has been at the dealership for several days now. Mechanic still unsure of what the problem is. He is unable to get the PIWIS scanner to communicate with the car. He tried to program a key with a pill, (my keys have no transponders) and had no success. The next step was to remove the module 997.618.260.08 (rear end control unit light module), and suggested we send it off to have it analyzed since this Porsche dealership does not have the ability to do so. I contacted a reputable tuning shop out of state where the guy who answered the phone spent almost an hour talking to me about what might be going on with the car with these symptoms. (Restored my faith in humanity). He said the last 997tt he saw with this situation of the car not recognizing the key (no idiot lights, fan, solenoid clicking sounds) it ended up being a failed steering column control unit requiring replacement and reprogramming. He also said the rear end control module was probably fine and didn’t recommend doing anything with it.
Both guys stated they didn’t think replacing the keys with new ones (with pills) would likely make any difference since the car worked fine previously without the pills and my mechanic didn’t want to throw away $1000 in new keys if that wasn’t the problem.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this possibility being the result of a failed steering column control unit. (Black box on top of the steering column)
Thanks to all!
Both guys stated they didn’t think replacing the keys with new ones (with pills) would likely make any difference since the car worked fine previously without the pills and my mechanic didn’t want to throw away $1000 in new keys if that wasn’t the problem.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this possibility being the result of a failed steering column control unit. (Black box on top of the steering column)
Thanks to all!
02-26-2019, 01:45 AM
#37
Racer
I'm frustrated for you, as no doubt other are here. Outside my pay grade but I really look forward to the diagnosis and subsequent faulty part(s) discovery.
02-26-2019, 03:48 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Oh boy.
OK, I did some more looking and found this post on Pistonheads. Not this is an answer but a little more information about how the key starts a car and what is on the wiring harness specific to the key:
The igniton switch works in conjunction with the PAS ECU (Porsche Access System) which detects the key via the immobiliser pill within the keyhead (no battery required in the key for this - it is a transponder coil). If the key is recognised - in the original format - the ELV (Steering column lock) is deactivated and term 86S is switched - basic systems and driver information is activated (key is determined and displayed in dash - key 1 / key 2 etc). The ignition switch; when turned fully to the right will either - again originally - switch on the 'ignition' - term.15 or if the switches on the pedal of the clutch (manual) or the brake (tiptronic) are activated term.50 (crank) is activated via the start lock relay. Depending on country of origin and model year you may also have VTS to include too - essentially a 'one-cut' immobiliser.
If your loom retains the OBD port then the Chassis No. programmed into the ECU' s can be read out (assuming you don't already have it) which will enable keys to be coded in the future. The start interlock can also be coded off (remove the coding that looks for the clutch and brake inputs if required).
If you haven't already it will help to ID the ECU's
1. Foreground right; in the tray - Gateway ECU (essentially the central hub of the CAN BUS system that communicates across all BUS speeds)
2. Middleground left; in the tray - Rear Body Control Module - looks after rear lighting and associated systems - spoiler control
3. Centre; going by vicinity to fuse box - PAS/KESSY Module - looks after the aforementioned vehicle access. Used in conjunction with the DME ECU to immobilise the vehicle. To code keys the unit is accessed via Porsche's IPAS system (centrally held codes; programmed at vehicle inception and held on a worldwide system).
4. Behind the Instruments - Front Body Control Module - looks after front lighting and functions (fuel flap lock solenoid for example).
The loom is compact considering the functions - a byproduct of CAN BUS where digital signals are used to transfer common information along two wires to enable activation or control of subsystems without the need for complex and repetitive wiring.
The picture he is referring to is:
From, another site:
I just had this happen to my GT2 - one of the two keys stopped functioning. And it never recovered. Thankfully, I was at home. An attempt at reprogramming the key's transponder to the PAS/KESSY control module failed, and required a complete control module swap.
Same guy further down in the thread:
If you put the key in, turned to ignition 1, and no electronics showed up the first time, then my guess is something happened to PAS/KESSY.
I try and keep looking, but there are several items on that harness, yet the comments about PASSKESSY and no display when the key is not recognized are interesting.
It does talk about the rear control module being in the loop, but I am not sure how that relates to the pill not being recognized. I'll do some more looking.
Ed
OK, I did some more looking and found this post on Pistonheads. Not this is an answer but a little more information about how the key starts a car and what is on the wiring harness specific to the key:
The igniton switch works in conjunction with the PAS ECU (Porsche Access System) which detects the key via the immobiliser pill within the keyhead (no battery required in the key for this - it is a transponder coil). If the key is recognised - in the original format - the ELV (Steering column lock) is deactivated and term 86S is switched - basic systems and driver information is activated (key is determined and displayed in dash - key 1 / key 2 etc). The ignition switch; when turned fully to the right will either - again originally - switch on the 'ignition' - term.15 or if the switches on the pedal of the clutch (manual) or the brake (tiptronic) are activated term.50 (crank) is activated via the start lock relay. Depending on country of origin and model year you may also have VTS to include too - essentially a 'one-cut' immobiliser.
If your loom retains the OBD port then the Chassis No. programmed into the ECU' s can be read out (assuming you don't already have it) which will enable keys to be coded in the future. The start interlock can also be coded off (remove the coding that looks for the clutch and brake inputs if required).
If you haven't already it will help to ID the ECU's
1. Foreground right; in the tray - Gateway ECU (essentially the central hub of the CAN BUS system that communicates across all BUS speeds)
2. Middleground left; in the tray - Rear Body Control Module - looks after rear lighting and associated systems - spoiler control
3. Centre; going by vicinity to fuse box - PAS/KESSY Module - looks after the aforementioned vehicle access. Used in conjunction with the DME ECU to immobilise the vehicle. To code keys the unit is accessed via Porsche's IPAS system (centrally held codes; programmed at vehicle inception and held on a worldwide system).
4. Behind the Instruments - Front Body Control Module - looks after front lighting and functions (fuel flap lock solenoid for example).
The loom is compact considering the functions - a byproduct of CAN BUS where digital signals are used to transfer common information along two wires to enable activation or control of subsystems without the need for complex and repetitive wiring.
The picture he is referring to is:
From, another site:
I just had this happen to my GT2 - one of the two keys stopped functioning. And it never recovered. Thankfully, I was at home. An attempt at reprogramming the key's transponder to the PAS/KESSY control module failed, and required a complete control module swap.
Same guy further down in the thread:
If you put the key in, turned to ignition 1, and no electronics showed up the first time, then my guess is something happened to PAS/KESSY.
I try and keep looking, but there are several items on that harness, yet the comments about PASSKESSY and no display when the key is not recognized are interesting.
It does talk about the rear control module being in the loop, but I am not sure how that relates to the pill not being recognized. I'll do some more looking.
Ed
02-26-2019, 03:00 PM
#39
Track Day
Thread Starter
Thank you guys for the support. I think the plan right now is to replace the PAS/KESSY control module and try to program two new keys. Items ordered by the dealership and should be in (about 3-5 days). I’ll update after. I appreciate the help!
02-27-2019, 01:40 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Wow, I feel for you. Frustrating to read let alone live through. While I have nothing constructive to add in resolving the issue, regarding how both pills are gone and one may be in the car - maybe the previous owner had one key fail and owner’s, or shop’s, cheap fix was to tape/glue/place working pill within the car to have both keys working again.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Good luck, keep us posted.
03-01-2019, 03:39 PM
#42
Track Day
Thread Starter
RESOLVED!
Got a call from Porsche of the Village today that I could come and pick up the car. Turns out the mechanic didn’t need to replace the PAS/KESSY after all. He was able to program in two new keys and that was it. All is well with the world again. Took off from my busy workday and drove it for the first time in three months. Still wondering where the other transponder is.
Anyway, thanks to all of you for the support! I wish I could buy you guys a beer. I left a bottle of single barrel ****’s Creek for the mechanic. He deserved it.
Got a call from Porsche of the Village today that I could come and pick up the car. Turns out the mechanic didn’t need to replace the PAS/KESSY after all. He was able to program in two new keys and that was it. All is well with the world again. Took off from my busy workday and drove it for the first time in three months. Still wondering where the other transponder is.
Anyway, thanks to all of you for the support! I wish I could buy you guys a beer. I left a bottle of single barrel ****’s Creek for the mechanic. He deserved it.
03-01-2019, 05:49 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Outstanding! Next time you are near a warehouse, drop in and ask to borrow a portable RFID scanner, take the keys far away from the car and scan every inch of it until you find the damn pill floating around your car!
Just kidding, as Carlos said, go burn through some S turns!
Ed
Just kidding, as Carlos said, go burn through some S turns!
Ed