LateBraking

Delete: my suggestions (TPC and Dawes) are probably a little far for PPI when buying from a local Philly dealer. (TPC is top notch though and I have heard that Dawes is great as well.)

bobaines

Both Dawes and TPC are top notch for PPI and service.
The question on PSAM with shock change is a good catch. Do original shocks come with the car? Any other parts changed? An aside, I added the DCS module from TPC, very happy.
With no service records and no coolant pipes fix you are looking at approximately $4K in coolant fix and deferred maintenance. You could use this point in your negotiations.
You need to understand why this car has not sold in 5 months, if that is correct. A story!?
As these cars use up tires in short order you will be able to put on whatever you want soon.

757driver

I am about an hour from Dawes, will definitely check them out. No other parts on the car are changed, just the shocks. Not sure if the factory shocks are included, but I would guess not.
Is the DCS the Porsche stability control? I didn't realize you could add that to a gen 1 car. I would be interested in that as well. Dealer says no stories, the car fax shows nothing as well.

LateBraking

The TPC box and the factory stability control thing you are thinking of is a bit different. The TPC box is called the DSC unit, stands for Dynamic Suspension control. On the 997.2's it improves the performance of the OEM PASM shocks, and on the 997.1 once you install their accelerometer (which is like 100 bucks, not expensive by any means) which is the one small addition needed for the TPC box, the 997.1 basically gains the 3-axis suspension function of the 997.2 with a TPC upgrade instead of the 2-axis suspension function of a 997.1. There is a dedicated thread started by TPC out there for more info, and recently a guy on this forum logged what the box was doing for the shocks as he raced around a track. I'd look there for more info.

Forum opinions on it differ as always, I recommend it alongside bobaines as well. In the end its still a mod, so I'd turn my focus on (1) getting the right car first and then (2) getting the car sorted with the "needs" like the coolant pipes, then (3) the "wants."

I wouldn't trust any dealer to admit to anything, and CarFax is a good tool but in the end it's just one tool, and not a perfect one. I would cross-check against a AutoCheck, I once was buying a S2000 as a track toy and CarFax and AutoCheck each had one thing that the other missed. My car passed a PPI as well as independent inspections at two other shops and TPC ended up finding that the puck inside the front lower control arm puck was damaged. Not a big deal and in everyone else's defense I guess it's not something terribly easy to spot, but just points to the value of a competent mechanic and independent PPI (at least in my mind).

Oh, one kind of semi-unique issue I think I've had that most people haven't had, but I'd replace the coolant reservoir cap as a precaution. It's 30 dollars or something. Mine went bad due to age and my car started pissing coolant out the overflow constantly. Freaked out a bit, turned to Rennlist, search found a suggestion to replace the cap, fixed the problem entirely. Car's 8 years old, so I figure it's a small thing to do so you don't have to worry about it for another 8 years. Not necessary, but if I was buying again, I'd probably do it even if it wasn't pissing coolant or anything. Probably going to change the cap every few years from now on just because why not.

bobaines

Sorry about the DCS/DSC flip flop. You should ask for the stock shocks to be included at that price. Check with Porsche on the cost for replacements, it can be a item to be included in price negotiations.
I agree on order of priority, find a good solid car, fix any items found on PPI, coolant pipes, deferred maintainance. Then put some miles on it before making any modifications.

I did not do it that way because I both knew what I wanted and had Porsche experience. I did the DSC+accelerometer, Sharkworks center delete and tips, and a 3.89 ring and pinion at the same time I had the coolant pipes welded, Sharkworks SS elbows, six year service, RMS, and water pump.

757driver

Thanks for the replies guys! Very useful information. Im still a little fuzzy on the TPC box and DSC so I will look into that further after I find the right car.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what are the SS elbows, the RMS, and what did you have done with the water pump?
Would I be better off with another car with the factory PASM? Is there something wrong with the H&R adjustable coil overs?

Thanks!

LateBraking

Sharkwerks elbows:
http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=394

Article on why they made these, check about 2/3 or 3/4 of the page down. This page also has a lot of information regarding pinning your coolant pipes:
http://sharkwerks.com/porsche/techni...urbo-cars.html

RMS is rear main seal. They all eventually seep a bit of engine oil from the RMS and it's a maintenance item. If it's seeping a wee lil' bit, don't freak out or completely pass on the car if it's otherwise a good car. People replace them when they are having their clutch replaced. Mine wasn't seeping at all when I got my clutch replaced but I replaced it anyways.

Water pump is a bear to replace unless your engine is out of the car. A good time to replace it is when your engine is out for the coolant pipe fix and such.

H&R coils aren't personally my first choice, especially on a GT3 (I'm fine with stock for the time being but if we're talking non-electronic I'd probabaly go Ohlins or JRZ) but I mean there are those that like them. I just asked the question to make sure your PASM module and such is still there. Though it was probably coded out properly, you have no idea until you ask, and assumption is the mother of all mistakes.

Greg Lab

I applaud your dedication to your decision to go for a GT3, but have you considered a 997 TT as well? Being a first 911 for you, a GT3 is on the extreme with all that power to RWD. The turbo is the lap of luxury, with boku power and torque, but more importantly is AWD with many chassis handling features. IMHO, it is a safer car for a new 911 driver. That said, if you get a GT3, be damn careful learning its limits, it is much more of a handful than a standard 911... Just a thought, and you may want to test drive them both.

757driver

Greg, I appreciate your suggestion and intend to grow into my GT3 cautiously and with a lot of respect for the car. I actually was set on a 997.1 turbo until I went for a test drive in one about 2 years ago. It had a tip transmission, which isn't what i would have bought, but it was my only opportunity to drive one. I'm sure the tranny didn't help any, but it was too soft and the noise the car made did nothing for me. The acceleration was nothing like I have experienced before though. Great car, just not for my only 911. I then shifted my interest to a 997 GTS. I liked that car, new technology, but it didn't wow me with its sharpness or have the acceleration I want, and it seemed to run out of revs before the engine came alive or something to that effect. This led me to the GT3. Now I have not yet driven a GT3 very hard, or for very long on either of my 2 test drives, but all it took was one time running the engine up to redline and I was hooked. I knew at 8000+ rpm that this was the one for me. The sound and personality of that engine as it climbed through the revs changed my whole perception of emotion derived from driving a car.

757driver

Late Braking,
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me. I am loving every minute of learning all about my dream car and how to get the most out of it from yourself and all the other forum members who have responded.

Greg Lab

Haha, yeah they can be very addicting! Well, now you know for sure what you want. Just be careful when you first get it, and slowly learn the limits, I'm sure you will. I personally know of one, where the owner was new to it, and wadded it up on the street through improper driving...

I agree with the others, the search can be frustrating. Not that many get listed for sale, and as time marches on, they all seem to firm in sales price. That said, you have to be very diligent to find a clean one, unabused, well cared for, and that cannot be rushed. So try to enjoy the search, allow yourself some time ( maybe 4-6 months) to find the right one. In the end you will be very happy, and then enjoy the hell out of it like all of us!

Liquid911

I think H&R makes the stock springs for the 997, I've seen their name stamped on them. If that's the case the car in question has standard Porsche coilovers, dealer could be shooting from the hip, it could be the ultimate red herring.

ChrisF

My $.02 of things to consider:

- If mooty gives you advice, listen. He knows more about GT3's than possibly anyone here or elsewhere
- Don't limit your search to local cars; look nationwide. There is an amazing network on this board for tracking down owners, history and local trusted PPI sources. I found my car in PA, had it PPI'd locally and bought it sight unseen and shipped it. With proper due diligence, this is a workable solution
- Do not rush into this until you know exactly what you want.
- Be prepared to act quickly when you find what you want. Don't quibble over a few thousand $$. It's not worth it if you end up getting a solid car from an honest seller.
- If you're worried about future value, depreciation, miles - seriously consider something else.

golfnutintib

you have gotten plenty of good advice here already

my only add here is a suggestion to drive a .2 and also a .1 at some level of intensity if at all possible, to develop a personal understanding of how they differ in feel

my take ---> for a street car, 7.1 is functionally equivalent to 7.2, in fact feels more alive/jittery, engine more peaky and exciting...on the street the 7.2 feels like a 7.1 with its edges rounded off, quieter, more grown up, and a little more midrange pull

for a car seeing some/alot of track duty, 7.2 in stock form is MUCH better than 7.1...7.1 needs suspension rework to equal 7.2's stability near/at limit on track...where the 7.1 dances, jiggles, dives and shimmies over transitions and rough patches, the 7.2 feels significantly more calm and hunkered

a note on tpc dsc box/3d accel -- good add for 7.1 stock suspension in that it gives a softer mode for street use in the softest setting; this is a useful feature... however, the box IMO does NOT help 7.1 track response appreciably if wired into stock suspension hardware

Runner

I have a .1 and .2 GT3 and agree with comments above about the .1. It's my favorite. Also better looking. The .2 stays at the track in a garage.

My advise is to buy a .1 and save 15 to 20k. Don't be afraid of higher mileage ones; just do your research. Lower mileage cars tend to have more track time, higher milage with more DD miles.

Do not go with the turbo. I used to own a 997 turbo. Stay on track with the GT3; best car Porsche makes.

Find it quick as prices will continue to go up. Lot of 997 RS owners are bubble wrapping them, therefore retiring from track use and will potentially be looking at the .1 or .2 GT3 to add to their fleet for track purposes. IMO these cars will not go down in price but up.

.1 is a bargain for now, it will change.