993GT

No worries, hopefully my response didn't come across wrong, just wanted to make sure people aren't 4 inches away from their rads blowing 200psi at them
I know what the racers do, but they like spending money I've had better luck cleaning rads/heat-exchangers/intercoolers using a garden hose flowing directly through the cores, low pressure high mass seems to get the junk out well
pressure washing at car wash is fine but stay a foot or two back, no fins bent here.
But again, a lighter radiator/heat exchanger does a better job relieving heat in extended use...
Cheers,
Rob

mobonic

If a product is never critiqued and tweaked it means its not being developed enough... thats the entire point of parts being tested in racing, because racing always shows weakness because of harsher use and conditions.

I would not shy away from the CSF rads because of this Im just providing my feedback as one asked and what I like to rad from other "informed" members that test new products.

I also stated this because im interested to hear from others that have used the rads and how they faired in track use with debris and use over time.

If i was only using my car on the street I would just use oem rads but if I was looking for better cooling over oem then i would look at these which is what i did.

Still think CSF is the best of the rest in its price range, but there is a reason why all big race teams use PWR, because there is a reason they are $1,000 per radiator. But for street and occasional track I think CSf is worth looking at and trying.

993GT

agree 100%

CSF Cooling

I got the tip on this thread and I decided to see what the chatter was about, and put my 2 cents in as the manufacturer of the radiators in question.

1) We do use a multi louvered fin which has more louveres than both the PWR unit and the OEM for better performance and lightweight savings, this makes them slightly more fragile, but not by much.. We have heard the feedback from professional race car drivers who are using our units, and they have discussed with us the durability of the fins with track debris and when cleaning them.
Very seldom are these units being installed without the AC condenser as well. As most DE and street guys like the function of their AC.

- I don't particually agree that using compressed air or water to clean the radiators is a good idea, but I know that is common practice at the track, so we're also trying to continously improve our products as we go along into 2015. I was just at my factory in November, and this is a topic that I had brought up to them. We've decided to move towards a thicker fin and tube guage to make our cores more duabile for extreme racing environments. This has been a problem for about 2% of our customers. The majority of our end customers, dealers, and distributors are very happy with our product and see our radiators as a great OEM alternative when needing to replace the stock units or when a customer wants a more higher performing, all-aluminum upgrade.

We are currently sold out of a lot of our products because it has been receieved so well by the Porsche community, so most of the products that will be purchased in 2015 will have the upgraded core design. The price will stay the same, but our products are always improving.

If you are considering buying our products for a high performance (DE), or street car you can buy our products with confidnece now. If you are a professional race car driver, I would still be confident in using CSF as we do have many professional race car teams using our stuff and are happy..

I'll put it out to the forums.. Money back guranatee if you purchase our cooling systems, and are not 100% satisfied with the performance or durability.

Thanks for all the support, and feedback on our products.. This is what helps us improve and stay ahead of the curve.
We've sold over 600 sets of Porsche radiators in 2014, and with very few complaints about durability (less than 10 complaints).

P.J.S.

powdrhound

Great to see a manufacturer constantly improving their product..

turbofever

i had cooling issues with my c2s because the lack of a 3rd center rad, i installed a gt3 version with all the correct ducting and said goodbye to water temps at 250.

i can tell it made an immediate improvement as now my engine takes a lot longer to warm to operating temps. beside that just running my hand over the top vent and feeling the heat on that grill makes me realize how much heat is being extracted. they really got the design right with the gt3 models.

i am surprised you guys with the 3 rads are having cooling issues.

sharkster

Hey data dick... I've got them on my 4.1 but haven't noticed any changes as yet. Fit nice and good end tanks etc... more durable etc... but I'll try get out on track more. Last time was at willow springs testing the clubsports out in September and it didn't really show a change. Then again I'm a slow poke. Temps are cooler now in winter but come summer I'll give it a whirl!

mobonic

This is the sign of a good company. Ready to listen to feedback good or bad and continue to evolve the product. CSF listened to their customers and pro partners and improved the product, kudos to CSF and now their 2015 rads will be better for it and the consumer will get a better product and experience.

Same reason why Porsche races cars to test and keep developing a better stronger product, not just marketing like other companies.

nzskater

Just want to say thanks to the contributors in this thread, be they seat of the pants scientists, data dicks or manufacturers. I think I've got an impending rad replacement (very minute coolant loss front left, pressure tests ok) and so am looking to replace and have been considering CSF. Hopefully doesn't need to be sorted until the new stock comes in

TB993tt

The cap fits

I think it's pretty hard to make a call back to back against a different rad set up unless you do a same climate condition same duration track day and compare data, not something I can do.

I logged temperatures on recent high speed running and the water temp went down (from the begining of the run at 60mph) from 90.8C to 86.3C yet the oil temp went up from 97.5C to 98.3C . I guess the 200+mph airflow does its job through the water rads.

Obligatory data dick for 200mph below:


Have to say I don't agree with posters praising the manufacturer for saying they will strengthen the core material/structure following a single (informative) post pointing out the weakness. Porsche parts which I want to fit to my GT2 should be tested to Porsche standards before being released to the market and from the sounds of it these rads haven't been so the MK2 versions will be stronger leaving me with the Beta prototype versions - not very happy about that

CSF Cooling

This is why so many manufacturers are reluctant to come on the forums and be transparent about their development..

1) These units are tested to equal or higher than Porsche standards.. We burst pressure test to 2x the operatiing pressure, we put all of our designs on the wind tunnel to maximize performance, we salt spray test for corosion, we thermal cycel test for 100,000 cycles, and we individually manually leak test every unit before it leaves our factory.

2) I can give you testiomonials and a large list of professional race teams to contact yourself who are using our products, and are very happy with our cooling products. The few race teams who have given CSF constructive and helpful feedback, we have used it to make our product better. What's wrong with that?? All we have done is changed our fin and tube thickness from .003 to .005 thickness. It's not some crazy change or thickness amount that would be noticable to any end user. THIS ONLY EFFECTED pro race drivers who are not using condensers in their set-up with larger vented radiator screens that did not initally capture a lot of the debris..

- These changes have been in the works for a few months now from when I was at my factory the last several times, not just because someone came on the fourms and said something. (read my original post)
- There is a huge, and I repeat HUGE investment in buying thicker aluminum rolls to make our products even better. We're not having to buy a few rolls of aluminum, we're talking 2,500 KG+ of this new aluminum. There is also a lead time from order to delivery, and then settng up and testing our machines for this new material.

TB993tt - Please let me ask you a few questions.
1) Are you using your AC condensers in your set-up? If so, then why are you worried about this at all? The strength of the radiators are the same in terms of duability and testing. The only reason we are changing it is to be able to better service pro-race teams.. Nothing will be different in terms of quality or performance to street or high performance drivers who have condenser set-ups

2) You do not own a beta product. I don't think the 1st Iphone was a beta product when the 2nd version came out. I don't think it's fair for you to make the comment that you did, but it is your own feeling.

3) In regards to any of the testing / data logging anyone has done on cooling systems. Please understand that the temperature of the vehicle is regulated by the thermostat (unless there is a thermostat delete set-up).. It doesn't matter how efficient the radiators are, you will see the same temperatures if they are in the optimal range regulated by the thermostat... You will see an advantage using our radiators when driving under extreme driving conditions where the ambient temperatures are very high 90F+, and/or the car is being pushed agressively / to the limits, and the thermostat can no longer keep the temperatures in the optimal range. Our increased surface area and larger capacity will help keep the temperatures in the optimal range (or lower than where the OEM units would be able to). Also the all-aluminum construction is a big advantage, not just the perfomance aspects, because of the durbaility and ability for higer vibrations and spikes in pressure, etc.. .

4) The best manufacturers try to continuously improve their product. We want to eventully provide our products to the best Porsche race teams, including Porsche motorsports who we have also made contact with CSF due to some interest about our high quality, performance, and value.

Out of 600+ sets sold in 2014, we got less than 10 complaints about core durabilty in regards to track debris.. That is 1.6%. This was not complaints that our product wasn't good (as you can see Mobonic is also saying they are good radiators after his critique), it was that they could be better for extreme track use with AC delete..

Also understand that pro-race teams are always changing our parts due to fatigue. We want pro race teams to be able to use our parts longer than they can now.. Some teams have put over 10,000 track miles with our radiators, some are more particular and change them out at the beginning of every year no matter what (bigger budget teams), some want to change them every couple of radiators or after their own inspection process.
- Nascar race teams change the radiator out every single race. The radiator is perfectly good, but it's not 100% efficient after some wear to the core. They have the money to do this, and that is their own right.. I'm not goint to tell the radiator manufacturer that their $3,000+ product is not durable enough..

We supply some of the best high performance tuners and race teams in the country and around the world. (like Alex at Sharkwerks ).. We get a lot of praise, and a lot of feedback. Professional teams and turners are giving me feedback all the time that temps have gotten down, including PDK temps, because our radiators are so efficient..

- The sad part about the forums, and the internet in general, is that usually the happiest people are out enjoying their products, and the negative comments or criticism is usally magnified and portrayed to be larger than what it actually is.

If anyone has any other questions about our product, I'd be happy to answer them.

cpturbo

I'm very happy that you provide this product to the community. I have a full set including center. I hope you continue to make products for Porsche! I do not run the AC condensers and I will upgrade if they get blistered.

Thanks

TB993tt

Same ? doesn't make sense....
Yes I have condensors

I don't agree with your analogy. IMO Porsche parts should be tested on the track and only signed off for street use once fully evaluated, if you are changing the material then this has not happened IMO. My tuner tests all engine components in racing before using on a street engine package.

Thankyou for pointing that out, it is what I thought.

Bottom line I like to have the best available tech on my car, I have a $15K set of intercooler rads out back and I'm just pissed off that I will have the old style "fragile" side rads, I should have waited

bmwtye

When will the upgraded core design radiators be available?