"Interesting" first track experience with the GT3 (with pics!)
08-21-2014, 05:26 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
"Interesting" first track experience with the GT3 (with pics!)
Ok, so I'm not some boy racer that thinks he is the latest and greatest and is going to immediately set course records on the track. In fact, I'm pretty humble and very eager to learn. This was my third DE, but first in this car. First DE was in my 996 tt (no spins). Second was in my 996 gt3 (no spins). This time, 2 spins! As in full 360, "both feet in,"snap-oversteer-into-the-dirt-code-brown" spins!
I really liked my instructor but despite my protestations to the contrary, I really think he saw my car and assumed a competence level that was not warranted. I also doubt he has much rear engine car track time as his track car is a 3rd generation camaro. It was my first time at this particular track. With helmets on, windows down, and side muffler delete, it was also very hard to hear him in most situations. All in all I had a great time, and if nothing else this was a good reminder that I need to go slow and take it easy until I get more experience, even if there is an acura integra pushing me in the corners! (dude was fast, but was a NASA instructor who had over 500 laps at that track, so I didn't feel too bad). Tire pressures were spot on, but I think I'm going to loosen up my rear sway bar before the next event (it was on full stiff).
Worst part was ending up in the gravel trap and having to get towed out. Oh yeah, and the dust storm that ended up in my open window! I had to remove both bumpers, all the undertrays, all the fender liners, etc... to blow out all the gravel that got trapped in the undercarriage. Car is almost back together though and will be good as new after a few more days of detail work!
Enjoy the photos...I'll post up the go pro video of the spin after I convert it and upload to Youtube this weekend.
I really liked my instructor but despite my protestations to the contrary, I really think he saw my car and assumed a competence level that was not warranted. I also doubt he has much rear engine car track time as his track car is a 3rd generation camaro. It was my first time at this particular track. With helmets on, windows down, and side muffler delete, it was also very hard to hear him in most situations. All in all I had a great time, and if nothing else this was a good reminder that I need to go slow and take it easy until I get more experience, even if there is an acura integra pushing me in the corners! (dude was fast, but was a NASA instructor who had over 500 laps at that track, so I didn't feel too bad). Tire pressures were spot on, but I think I'm going to loosen up my rear sway bar before the next event (it was on full stiff).
Worst part was ending up in the gravel trap and having to get towed out. Oh yeah, and the dust storm that ended up in my open window! I had to remove both bumpers, all the undertrays, all the fender liners, etc... to blow out all the gravel that got trapped in the undercarriage. Car is almost back together though and will be good as new after a few more days of detail work!
Enjoy the photos...I'll post up the go pro video of the spin after I convert it and upload to Youtube this weekend.
08-21-2014, 05:32 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Glad all is ok with minimal damage.
First question that comes to mind is whether the car has been properly aligned. The GT3 does not suffer crappy alignments well. Small adjustments can transform from undeliverable to heaven.
First question that comes to mind is whether the car has been properly aligned. The GT3 does not suffer crappy alignments well. Small adjustments can transform from undeliverable to heaven.
08-21-2014, 05:52 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Firebird (now Wild Horse Pass) East track. Alignment and corner balance is next on the agenda (I've only had the car for a couple months, so its possible its way off...will do locking toe links at same time). I was on 1/2 used toyo r888's. Rears are just about at the wear bars now, but compound still seems nice and soft.
Funny thing is that this car did not even have a hint of push. My old gt3 pushed a good bit, and of course the turbo pushed as well. This one turned in great (perhaps a little too great). Power felt great and the 8k plus redline was just awesome.
Funny thing is that this car did not even have a hint of push. My old gt3 pushed a good bit, and of course the turbo pushed as well. This one turned in great (perhaps a little too great). Power felt great and the 8k plus redline was just awesome.
08-21-2014, 05:56 PM
#6
Scott, you had stability/traction control off? I would suggest leaving it on for a while at least. At the novice level it's pretty good at not coming on unless it's really needed. As you get more seat time and awareness you will be able to tell when it comes on so you can make a mental note of what caused it to engage and learn from it...maybe you don't learn quite the way you would with it off but it's better than taking the car apart to get the gravel out. Have fun.
08-21-2014, 05:56 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Another cool pic. That is my good friends 991 gt3...the 600 hp z06 ($30k in engine, tranny, and engine mods) in the background couldnt' even gain on the 991 in the straights!
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08-21-2014, 06:57 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
A couple of things:
- full stiff rear sway will certainly "help" you spin
- check that its the stock (GT3) bar and not the GT2 bar which is a lot stiffer anyway...
- tire temps & pressures?
Also lastly, I would not typically accept an instructor that had no 911 driving experience especially with
a GT3, as a Camaro is a very different car to drive than a 911GT3 ...
I'm also biased, I dont think NASA is an organization I would recommend as a place to learn to drive the track quickly and safely.
I'd recommend PCA, POC, BMWCCA or some of the other track run groups CFRG etc ...
- full stiff rear sway will certainly "help" you spin
- check that its the stock (GT3) bar and not the GT2 bar which is a lot stiffer anyway...
- tire temps & pressures?
Also lastly, I would not typically accept an instructor that had no 911 driving experience especially with
a GT3, as a Camaro is a very different car to drive than a 911GT3 ...
I'm also biased, I dont think NASA is an organization I would recommend as a place to learn to drive the track quickly and safely.
I'd recommend PCA, POC, BMWCCA or some of the other track run groups CFRG etc ...
08-21-2014, 07:29 PM
#11
half worn r888s and snap spins? - say it ain't so
track cars are usually better if they are like a spouse (mostly predictable) than a new lover (maybe more fun but you don't know exactly what to expect)
- you are new to DEs
- you are new to the car at DEs
- you have no idea what the previous guy did to setup the car
- the tires are 'half' worn and you have no idea of the number of heat cycles
the number of possibilities here is mind boggling
most new to DE people will spin a gt3 once they start pushing it - I know I did - why? - you just get over your head and you don't have the experience to recognize it nor the skill to save it as it is happening
here are my suggestions (for what it is worth)
- get a new set of MPSS (street tires) that you know are new and are therefore predictable - it is impossible to setup a car with worn tires you will just be chasing your tail
- listen to the above recommendation and figure out if the car has the rear gt2 bar (if the previous owner was a track head it is possible) - set it on soft for now - middle works later (50 track days later) - if OE bar then it is fine on hard - you could tighten the front bar 1 hole but not necessary
- if the car rotated on a high speed 3rd gear turn you either lifted as you were going to fast for your comfort or the rear tires are shot or the rear bar is the gt2 bar
- if the car rotated on tight 2nd gear corners then this is normal and welcome to the learning curve of becoming a better driver - it is worth the effort and you need to set up a gt3 in this manner to be fast - if it was a 2nd gear type turn you do these type corners on / over / past / back again / over again of oversteer - this is 100% normal and you will just develop the hands to do this with experience (just think of driving a go-cart) - you have to expect it 100% of the time - and learn to deal with it - if it surprises you (like it just did) it is way to late to save it - just expect it next time
- burn those 1/2 used r888 tires - snap oversteer death sentences they are
have fun
track cars are usually better if they are like a spouse (mostly predictable) than a new lover (maybe more fun but you don't know exactly what to expect)
- you are new to DEs
- you are new to the car at DEs
- you have no idea what the previous guy did to setup the car
- the tires are 'half' worn and you have no idea of the number of heat cycles
the number of possibilities here is mind boggling
most new to DE people will spin a gt3 once they start pushing it - I know I did - why? - you just get over your head and you don't have the experience to recognize it nor the skill to save it as it is happening
here are my suggestions (for what it is worth)
- get a new set of MPSS (street tires) that you know are new and are therefore predictable - it is impossible to setup a car with worn tires you will just be chasing your tail
- listen to the above recommendation and figure out if the car has the rear gt2 bar (if the previous owner was a track head it is possible) - set it on soft for now - middle works later (50 track days later) - if OE bar then it is fine on hard - you could tighten the front bar 1 hole but not necessary
- if the car rotated on a high speed 3rd gear turn you either lifted as you were going to fast for your comfort or the rear tires are shot or the rear bar is the gt2 bar
- if the car rotated on tight 2nd gear corners then this is normal and welcome to the learning curve of becoming a better driver - it is worth the effort and you need to set up a gt3 in this manner to be fast - if it was a 2nd gear type turn you do these type corners on / over / past / back again / over again of oversteer - this is 100% normal and you will just develop the hands to do this with experience (just think of driving a go-cart) - you have to expect it 100% of the time - and learn to deal with it - if it surprises you (like it just did) it is way to late to save it - just expect it next time
- burn those 1/2 used r888 tires - snap oversteer death sentences they are
have fun
Last edited by 997gt3north; 08-22-2014 at 09:15 AM.
08-21-2014, 07:34 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Instructors trying to communicate over wind and engine noise isn't going to work. The Florida groups I instruct for require communicators and let the students know to expect their instructor to have them. I agree fully with Larry Cable's recommendation on the best organizations to track with when one is starting out with high performance P-cars.
BTW, that is a heck of a great looking GT3!
BTW, that is a heck of a great looking GT3!
Last edited by Cloudspin; 08-21-2014 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Spellling
08-21-2014, 08:07 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Great advice from the above posts. My first instinct on reading that you were on worn R888's was "that's likely it". Set the car to a known baseline with a fresh set of tires then start learning from scratch with a 911 savvy instructor. It is going to be so much more enjoyable.
