997.1 to 997.2 suspension
09-03-2013, 10:57 PM
#16
Drifting
+1 Don't be afraid of MCS and variants.. I'm ehh on KW's as I had some on my 6GT3 and put Motons on them which gave the car another life... They (MCS) can actually be dialed out wqy past stock giving a more comfortable feel on street and visa versa and be a wicked machine on the track with the turn of a ****.... If you truly feel that an 07' suspension is "weak" you are probably overdriving the suspension do time to up the game to a better unit. That won't be in the 7.2 catalogue.
09-04-2013, 01:34 AM
#17
Hi All.
My 2008 997.1 GT3 suspension is getting a bit tired, and i was hoping to upgrade all four corners.
I like to keep things as Porschey as possible, and as its an occasional daily driver i dont want anything to harsh on the road, I drove a Gen 2 GT3 on the track a few weeks ago, and it seemed so much more solid and in tune with the surface, this could be down to more than just suspension (roll cage for example)
Question is, can I upgrade my Gen 1 GT3 to Gen 2 GT3 suspension without any modifications? has anyone done it?
Thanks.
My 2008 997.1 GT3 suspension is getting a bit tired, and i was hoping to upgrade all four corners.
I like to keep things as Porschey as possible, and as its an occasional daily driver i dont want anything to harsh on the road, I drove a Gen 2 GT3 on the track a few weeks ago, and it seemed so much more solid and in tune with the surface, this could be down to more than just suspension (roll cage for example)
Question is, can I upgrade my Gen 1 GT3 to Gen 2 GT3 suspension without any modifications? has anyone done it?
Thanks.
09-04-2013, 08:04 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
I've seen 3.8 struts in a crash-damaged 3.6. In real metal. No codes. But that doesn't tell the whole story coz PASM's a real-time system and there's no telling if the struts are being dynamically adjusted and to the right extent (that being a binary state--valve open or closed--albeit many times a second)
09-04-2013, 08:18 AM
#19
Can't disagree more. Better in what sense? The OEM shocks are very accomplished for street use and few aftermarket alternatives do better. Not KW or Cargraphic for sure. Bilsteins are the only one I'd consider on a street car--they're the OEM manufacturers anyways.
For track use the needs/possibilities diverge significantly. Like the other poster said, your outcome can be anywhere between insanely great down to jeez-what-have-i-done. That's a function of test time for a given track and tweaking ad infinitum.
For track-dedicated use I'm gonna save that budget and use it on Motons/JRZs for a cup car. When the time's up on my street units I'd simply get another set of OEMs. Won't think otherwise for a sec.
OP: you'll need to look into the PASM control units--different part numbers between Gen 1 & 2. They're known to plug in and work without error codes, but it's not known whether PASM gets to full functionality across generations (i suspect so, since the part being controlled is just a simple valve inside the struts).
For track use the needs/possibilities diverge significantly. Like the other poster said, your outcome can be anywhere between insanely great down to jeez-what-have-i-done. That's a function of test time for a given track and tweaking ad infinitum.
For track-dedicated use I'm gonna save that budget and use it on Motons/JRZs for a cup car. When the time's up on my street units I'd simply get another set of OEMs. Won't think otherwise for a sec.
OP: you'll need to look into the PASM control units--different part numbers between Gen 1 & 2. They're known to plug in and work without error codes, but it's not known whether PASM gets to full functionality across generations (i suspect so, since the part being controlled is just a simple valve inside the struts).
I was referring to track use only. Street use I have no opinion.
Also, the gen1 997 has a vastly inferior suspension to the genII.
Not everyone has access to a Cup car. FYI the stock shocks on a Cup are non adjustable. I agree I would put adjustable shocks on a Cup, it makes tuning the handling much easier.
on my 3-ways, I stiffen the rear 2 clicks and the front 1 click when I go on track, then loosen it up when done to make the street drive more bearable.
incidentally, the kW's are co-developed with Manthey. I wouldn't have used them otherwise.
09-04-2013, 08:35 AM
#20
), love the adjustability. Soft for DD and firm and composed for track.
09-04-2013, 11:33 AM
#21
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wow thanks Guys, some great information.
I drive mine street sometimes, weekends mostly. and i do about 10+ track days a year, so was looking for a good compromise. get me quicker on the track, and with a different feel but not compromising the weekend drives..
Im waiting on a quote from KW, they have an importer here in Dubai
I drive mine street sometimes, weekends mostly. and i do about 10+ track days a year, so was looking for a good compromise. get me quicker on the track, and with a different feel but not compromising the weekend drives..
Im waiting on a quote from KW, they have an importer here in Dubai
09-04-2013, 11:56 AM
#22
I've seen 3.8 struts in a crash-damaged 3.6. In real metal. No codes. But that doesn't tell the whole story coz PASM's a real-time system and there's no telling if the struts are being dynamically adjusted and to the right extent (that being a binary state--valve open or closed--albeit many times a second)
thanks
and just to confirm, did they also put in the 3.8's PASM controller unit? - or did they leave in the older 997mk1 unit?
that is the real question I have as the car's bus structure changed so i was wondering if the newer PASM controller plugged into the mk1 car?
i agree that you will never know if the tiny corrections are happening but if the major two modes work then almost certainly the tiny stuff in the background is happening as well
09-05-2013, 01:59 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Same control unit. That said it's evident that multiple versions of controllers exist. Take the front controllers for example:
997.618.105.90/1 - 997.1 GT3 & RS
997.618.105.95/6 - 997.2 GT3
997.618.105.96 - 3.8 RS
997.618.135.98 - 4.0 RS
One thing we know is that the 3.8RS struts work with the 997.1 control units. And lately I've been hearing that 4.0 struts can be installed in 997.1s without problem as well but that's just hearsay.
997.618.105.90/1 - 997.1 GT3 & RS
997.618.105.95/6 - 997.2 GT3
997.618.105.96 - 3.8 RS
997.618.135.98 - 4.0 RS
One thing we know is that the 3.8RS struts work with the 997.1 control units. And lately I've been hearing that 4.0 struts can be installed in 997.1s without problem as well but that's just hearsay.
09-05-2013, 04:49 AM
#24
Same control unit. That said it's evident that multiple versions of controllers exist. Take the front controllers for example:
997.618.105.90/1 - 997.1 GT3 & RS
997.618.105.95/6 - 997.2 GT3
997.618.105.96 - 3.8 RS
997.618.135.98 - 4.0 RS
One thing we know is that the 3.8RS struts work with the 997.1 control units. And lately I've been hearing that 4.0 struts can be installed in 997.1s without problem as well but that's just hearsay.
997.618.105.90/1 - 997.1 GT3 & RS
997.618.105.95/6 - 997.2 GT3
997.618.105.96 - 3.8 RS
997.618.135.98 - 4.0 RS
One thing we know is that the 3.8RS struts work with the 997.1 control units. And lately I've been hearing that 4.0 struts can be installed in 997.1s without problem as well but that's just hearsay.
09-05-2013, 04:59 AM
#25
wow thanks Guys, some great information.
I drive mine street sometimes, weekends mostly. and i do about 10+ track days a year, so was looking for a good compromise. get me quicker on the track, and with a different feel but not compromising the weekend drives..
Im waiting on a quote from KW, they have an importer here in Dubai
I drive mine street sometimes, weekends mostly. and i do about 10+ track days a year, so was looking for a good compromise. get me quicker on the track, and with a different feel but not compromising the weekend drives..
Im waiting on a quote from KW, they have an importer here in Dubai
Just some things to think about before you blow several thousand $$$
09-05-2013, 07:03 AM
#26
Same control unit. That said it's evident that multiple versions of controllers exist. Take the front controllers for example:
997.618.105.90/1 - 997.1 GT3 & RS
997.618.105.95/6 - 997.2 GT3
997.618.105.96 - 3.8 RS
997.618.135.98 - 4.0 RS
One thing we know is that the 3.8RS struts work with the 997.1 control units. And lately I've been hearing that 4.0 struts can be installed in 997.1s without problem as well but that's just hearsay.
997.618.105.90/1 - 997.1 GT3 & RS
997.618.105.95/6 - 997.2 GT3
997.618.105.96 - 3.8 RS
997.618.135.98 - 4.0 RS
One thing we know is that the 3.8RS struts work with the 997.1 control units. And lately I've been hearing that 4.0 struts can be installed in 997.1s without problem as well but that's just hearsay.
That is what I thought.
Thus I think what you get is just the change in the Spring Rates between the cars - which in and of itself, the major improvement - and principally the front spring rate being higher.
I would bet that there is also a decent amount of r&d improvement in in the .96 control unit over the .90 - I don't know how much of it is 'feelable', but the mk2 cars have the reputation of feeling less jarring and while I think most of this likely is physically delivered with the struts, I think more than a little comes from the PASM control unit - especially on the control over the compression dampening.
09-05-2013, 07:19 AM
#27
I like KW for manufacture techniques and materials. Hard plastic spring perches and stainless bodies means no more seized perches!
I used Rennline pillow ball top mounts and turned the fronts for more camber/caster.
I used Rennline pillow ball top mounts and turned the fronts for more camber/caster.
09-05-2013, 07:50 AM
#28
09-09-2013, 05:58 AM
#29
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i guess the OEM set up is just tooo soft. having experienced other 997's with aftermarket (Bilstein/KW etc) its just so more solid on the track. yes, they are more experienced in terms of track time but even me driving there car and i feel much more intune with the track.
I run Trofeo R, which had a massive impact on track times over the MPSC i had before.
I run with TC on, and although not probably completely on the limit, its flashes a good few times each lap, mainly on the exits.
09-09-2013, 12:07 PM
#30
Hi BBM.
i guess the OEM set up is just tooo soft. having experienced other 997's with aftermarket (Bilstein/KW etc) its just so more solid on the track. yes, they are more experienced in terms of track time but even me driving there car and i feel much more intune with the track.
I run Trofeo R, which had a massive impact on track times over the MPSC i had before.
I run with TC on, and although not probably completely on the limit, its flashes a good few times each lap, mainly on the exits.
i guess the OEM set up is just tooo soft. having experienced other 997's with aftermarket (Bilstein/KW etc) its just so more solid on the track. yes, they are more experienced in terms of track time but even me driving there car and i feel much more intune with the track.
I run Trofeo R, which had a massive impact on track times over the MPSC i had before.
I run with TC on, and although not probably completely on the limit, its flashes a good few times each lap, mainly on the exits.
you will enjoy kW or whatever you go with! good luck!