Serge944

#1 reason

You forget you're in neutral at a light.

You rev the engine.

You immediately shove it in gear.

pp000830

The synchro's teeth can show quite a bit of ding marks and still work fine. The part that shows use from shifting is the friction ring and the ring it mates to. The stock synchro's teeth are a soft metal for a reason. I would not change anything to a racing upgrade as this may make the life of the unit shorter not longer. My car needed first and 2nd gear rings at 80K miles because the clutch faces on the rings were burnished smooth and they could no longer spin up the gears to synchronize speed. With this experience the next time it may need to be looked at is at 160K miles. It seems to me steel gears are more likely to chip and release hard metal debris that can damage the gears.

Andy

NorthVan

Great, I will mention that to the guy that owned the car before I bought it. Came that way.

montoya

No CL delete- dug myself a big hole here that I'm not going to dig out of anytime soon (new CL nuts, hubs, 3sets of wheels + original equip. wheels etc.)

Yes, Guard Diff and new R&P, and now new synchros. I have no idea what the hell caused the first gear wear. I think the original owner probably had a bad habit of shifting into first rolling to a stop- I never do this and most miles are on the track anyways where I don't use first. Second gear synchro is just worn not burnt out like first. I heal and toe all down shifts even on the street, but I don't double clutch.

Does anyone know anyone that double clutches on the track? I've never seen it.
If anyone has a video where someone is doing it in the car on the track that would be cool to see...

montoya

No sign of failure, only when the tranny is on the operating table...

Randy M

Didn't Sunset just do the CL recall on your car?

montoya

Yes, this is part of my CL "hole"- I also did 4 new CL nuts (check the time out schedule) and the front CL hubs and bearings, plus! I just bought another set of OZ challenge wheels (two sets now) to add to my forgelines and OE set. Big, big hole....

GTgears

Heel and toe without double clutch just saves some clutch life and unsettles the car less on the downshift. Without the double clutch you are doing nothing to save or preserve your synchros...

montoya

That's clear. Just asking who does a double clutch on the track at speed? I have never seen anyone do it and would like to see a video of someone doing it at a competitive pace. Most race cars don't have the same type of gears so I know that there is not the need to double clutch, so when we get to cars like the GT3 while it would be "nice" to double clutch, I personally think that it's not really something that can be done quickly at race pace. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

NorthVan

Classified section can get you out of that hole.

Asquared

I started doing last summer because my synchros in second started to go. It was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Clutch in, shift to neutral, blip throttle, clutch in, shift, release.

Took me a couple of turns to get it down. It's just an extra step and a slightly different rhythm.

montoya

Different SLOWER rhythm, right? I can't see you doing it as fast as a normal shift.
When there were only crash boxes everyone had to do it. But that's why they invented synchro's in the first place, but it is a wear item and depending on how hard you push it, it can wear out quicker or slower. I can live with it.

But again, my bias aside, I just want a video of someone doing it at a competitive pace. Maybe you can double clutch as fast as a single clutch, I just don't see how I can...

mooty

i can't do it.
but one of my instructors in SM does it like it's nothing. i dont understand how she can do it so smoothly and so fast. sorry no video though

montoya

Yeah, I'm going to look on Youtube cuz I think it's talked about but rarely done on track. Rare skill that's for sure. I'm too uncoordinated.

Edit: YouTube shows lots of how tos for big rigs or guys street driving. Found famous one of senna in NSX at Suzuka with footwork camera, no double clutch...

powdrhound

Clutch in, shift to neutral, release, blip throttle, clutch in, shift, release. Is that correct?