DJN

Hi Gents,

Discussion Topic:

With the newest re-call and the accompanying recommendations for rear hub and bearing replacement at 4200 miles/7000 km, and front hub and bearing replacement at 8400 miles/14000 km., the game has changed to a rather expensive one.

So the question is: What is a CL to 5 -lug conversion worth on a Used Car Re-sale....NOW? More, the same, less?

Facts:

1) Parts cost $1750-2000 for 5 lug conversion, labor $1000-1200 (10 to 12 hours for all for corners), Wheel cost "net" (buying new 5 lug type and selling used CL's) $2500 to 5000 per wheel set depending on your horse-trading abilities. Therefore, the likely cost range for the conversion is $5250-8200 for one wheel set only.

2) Note that future costs for CL cars every 4200 track miles will be: For Rear - Parts ~$2000, Labor $700-1000, so about $2700. Then alternately when all 4 wheels need done at the 8400miles/14000km interval, Parts ~$3500, Labor $1000-1200, so about $4500.


Note on the 5 lug converted cars, one still needs to swap out wheel bolts or studs and nuts on track drive cars, and also deal with wheel bearings from time to time, depending on the amount of abuse (i.e. running the curbs hard....right Mooty?).

So, I think the CL conversion to 5 lug conversion is worth atleast a $5000 premium in the re-sale market place.

1) The 5-lug system is lighter than the CL system
2) The 5-lug system is cheaper to maintain than the CL system
3) The 5-lug system is safer than the CL system
4) The 5-lug system is also easier for the general public to work on with simple hand tools.


Ok let games and comments begin..........be nice!

Cheers!
Doug N.

tcsracing1

It is worth it to me, but in the world of resale most buyers know nothing and want 100% stock.

Id say a noob buyer seeing 5 lugs on a centerlock car would freak them out even if they kinda know about centerlock issues.

FWIW, personally I would take a 5 lug converted car over a centerlock car if given a choice.

M3EvoBR

in regular market less for sure.
Selling as a track car, don't know ... I would assume still less, or at least would narrow your sale options.
If you sell the car with both, maybe the same and slightly more, and remember you would probably due to recall on those parts anyway.

Serge944

The maintenance on a 5 lug car is the same...

You drive a car like a race car, you need to maintain it like one. If you want to neglect maintenance, its up to you, but with 5 lug, your wheel wont fall off.

911rox

I would expect less for a 5 lug converted car because it no longer has oem wheels and therefore seems modified PLUS it highlights to the buyer that it was a well tracked car!

I feel tcs and m3evo are both pretty correct on this point!

Problem is further compounded by the fact that even the CL cars will start to take hits if buyers become aware of the CL issue as they won't be taking the seller's word for it with regards to log books. They will likely want to take $4-5k off the price to refresh hubs personally or demand an invoice to show it was recently done.....


Not true... Yes, these parts, particularly the bearings will wear and need to be replaced with regular track use but Porsche have never had a timeout schedule for 5 lug cars as they do now for CL cars. A tired bearing lets you know it is, a failing CL hub doesn't...

Porsche have simply F'ed up and rather than take responsibility and fix the problem, they have passed the repair tab over to us with the excuse that we use them like race cars so we must pay, yet the 996 and 997.1 gt owners don't have to replace hubs every 7000km, hmmmm...

tcsracing1

5 lug requires less maintenance.

Targa Tim

I'm no good at predicting any future values, but the above statement is priceless to me as a track driver.

Conversion to 5 lugs on my RS is inevitable, probably in 2014.

911rox

For a keeper, its a must.... I will likely follow suit.... By the time I'm ready to part with the car it will be worth nothing regardless of hub setup...

DJN

Interesting points Chris! Thanks for the input!

Some tracked cars, however, are better maintained than street cars, but for the most part you, tcs, and M3EVO, may well be correct. However, I'd say a true forged wheel upgrade may well equal or exceed OEM value.

On your second point de-valuing because of buyer being aware of CL issue, this was mostly the point of my original post, I believe this may take its toll eventually.

On your third point, 5 lug studs and nuts, or bolts are cheap and simple to swap out. And wheel bearings are wear items that give you notice, I fully agree.

And you truly hit home with your last point: "Porsche have simply F'ed up and rather than take responsibility and fix the problem, they have passed the repair tab over to us with the excuse that we use them like race cars so we must pay, yet the 996 and 997.1 gt owners don't have to replace hubs every 7000km, hmmmm... " this is absolutely spot on.....beer for you!


Cheers!
Doug N

jumper5836

with 2 cars being equal I'd prefer getting one with 5 lug. Otherwise that would be my first and probably only mod.

M3EvoBR

I believe the only wheel that might not make the car loose value is BBS, even than I Believe the car should have it's OEM wheel, otherwise will loose value. The GT3s will take a bigger hit than RS first because of production number and second because of CL, but that being said, will take a long time to be able to see those cars in the 80s, specially because they went up in value in the last few months.
my 2 cents

911rox

Hey Doug, thanx for the beer!

I fully agree with you that tracked cars are generally better maintained than those garage queens that see the street once every 6 months and an oil change once every 3 years... Regretfully the uneducated buyer discounts these cars for being used as intended...

I plan to go down the path you've pioneered when my next hub time out occurs. I'd prefer to have something functioning to sell for less rather than a wreck for next to nothing!

enthusiast

Stock, especially if the car is still under Porsche warranty.

Serge944

Either way, its a drop in the bucket considering all the other costs of logging 4200 track miles. Big picture.

mdrums

I tried to sell my center locks and wheels for a while and really couldn't find any takers. Stock center lock wheels seem to only pull $1000-1500 if lucky.