Center lock wheels on my 997.2 GT3
10-27-2012, 09:36 PM
#61
GT3 player par excellence
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it's REALLY hard to cross thread bull nose studs
I don't start it by hand
I put but on impact gun just gun it.
I don't start it by hand
I put but on impact gun just gun it.
10-27-2012, 09:45 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
This thread annoy me
But ill race anyone to change wheels, after 12 beers
We drive street cars at race car speed, stuff breaks deal with it
Or spend ur Saturday on rl complaining
But ill race anyone to change wheels, after 12 beers
We drive street cars at race car speed, stuff breaks deal with it
Or spend ur Saturday on rl complaining
10-27-2012, 09:49 PM
#63
GT3 player par excellence
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izzone right
I go drive now
I race anyone chg wheels except izzone. he actually knows what he's doong
I go drive now
I race anyone chg wheels except izzone. he actually knows what he's doong
10-28-2012, 12:03 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
10-28-2012, 01:23 AM
#68
Rennlist Member
The braker bar I have is great, so easy.
For fun I timed it, from my car parked and all tools stowed it takes me an easy 12 minutes to change 4 wheels. Same as 5 lug except I don't have to remember to charge gun.
Randy will do it quicker.
If I rush I can grease them in the same time, I looked at pads and gave everything a quick look.
Never started my car to hold brakes, only an idiot jacks up a car in the grass.
I bought some CL oz 4 weeks ago for $1750.00 plus shipping.
For fun I timed it, from my car parked and all tools stowed it takes me an easy 12 minutes to change 4 wheels. Same as 5 lug except I don't have to remember to charge gun.
Randy will do it quicker.
If I rush I can grease them in the same time, I looked at pads and gave everything a quick look.
Never started my car to hold brakes, only an idiot jacks up a car in the grass.
I bought some CL oz 4 weeks ago for $1750.00 plus shipping.
You talk to much sometimes....
CL's are absolutely ridiculous. BUT, not dangerous. If done right, they are as safe as lugs. Its just the procedure that is dangerous. Larger margin for error than 5 lug.
10-28-2012, 08:21 AM
#69
Nordschleife Master
I just work on peters car while drinking beer, he knows to take the first few laps slow the next morning
10-28-2012, 08:30 AM
#70
Rennlist Member
10-28-2012, 11:25 AM
#72
Race Director
10-29-2012, 01:06 PM
#73
Interesting comments on this thread and others concerning this subject--thanks to all for posting them. IMO, C/L's are fine but I didn't come to this conclusion just because Porsche told me to think this way. I've spent a lot of time like every one else thinking about this issue and here are some of the reasons to back up my thinking:
1.) They are proven: There have been at least two OEM C/L street cars run in the 24H Nurburgring since 2011. A long endurance race that is as hard on the car as any out there with multiple high speed wheel changes and no wheel failures? At a DE the driver typically has an hour in between sessions to perform a wheel change if it is even warranted and he is not under the time pressure of a race. If you can't change the wheels within that time span correctly, chances are you probably shouldn't be doing the wheel change yourself to begin with.
https://rennlist.com/forums/9545278-post1.html
2.) ^ The weekend warrior: Exactly what Mike said. This is an excellent point of reference and I agree completely with this. Some of these cars have way more than 24H on the hubs. It is not an accident their wheels stay on and others don't. They are following the procedure to the letter. Are 5 lugs easier to deal with? Yes. Are C/L's unsafe? No.
3.) Independent, qualified verification: I will not repost the email from Manthey here but when I asked them about this subject in writing, their response to me was, "....if everyone took the time and care to change CL wheels---as we do---there would be no problems". I've heard a similar response from my tuner in North America, Orbit racing when I asked them the same question.
4.) Depreciation: Over the next two years the 997.2 GT3/RS used car market is going to get more and more supply as drivers want to upgrade to the 991 or just get out of their car entirely because the warranty is coming due. There is no escaping market forces, prices will drop, even for the venerable 4.0. What is probably going to be the biggest single determining factor for the delta in value of one 997 GT car over another? More than likely which car can qualify as a CPO and which ones can't. If you change to a 5 lug for peace of mind you will be paying for it on the back end b/c the car will automatically be DQ'd as a CPO car. Sure, there is always going to be that small minority of buyers out there that say I want a car that has been converted to 5's with all the track goodies already installed but they are in the minority. It is no secret that if you don't want to hand over your title to the $tealers for pennies on the dollar the best way to get the most money for your car is to convert it to stock, sell it out right and sell the track goodies on their own. If you change back to C/L's in order to improve the car's chances of getting CPO'd or selling it as "stock" chances are you've already sold your stock rims to finance the conversion and now you're spending the same amount of money to go backwards.
5.) Long Term Value: This item has nothing to do with the previous points on the merits of the C/L system and is purely subjective so take it for what it is worth. My 997.2 GT3 is probably the last new Porsche I will ever buy and I plan on keeping it for a long time. As such I want a long warranty to go with it. In Europe after the OEM warranty expires I can buy an extended warranty from Porsche every year for the next 9 years for around 1,600 Euros per year. The warranty is the same as the one that came with the car and covers any issues that occur on or off track except in the case of driver error, e.g. money shifts, etc....Since I want to be in compliance with the contract and track the car I need a second set of C/L rims. A second set costs around Euro 9,500 or $12,000 from Porsche. There is no way I am paying that for rims. I was lucky enough to buy a set of perfect used rims from a fellow RL'er for less than 1/4 of that. I am applying the difference towards the next 6 years of future warranty I intend to purchase. If I had converted to 5 lugs for peace of mind none of this would have been made available to me.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the question of converting or not to convert. It is a personal choice based on how you intend to use the car and how long you want to keep it. My sincere hope is that I do not read any more posts about wheels coming off, C/L's or otherwise.
1.) They are proven: There have been at least two OEM C/L street cars run in the 24H Nurburgring since 2011. A long endurance race that is as hard on the car as any out there with multiple high speed wheel changes and no wheel failures? At a DE the driver typically has an hour in between sessions to perform a wheel change if it is even warranted and he is not under the time pressure of a race. If you can't change the wheels within that time span correctly, chances are you probably shouldn't be doing the wheel change yourself to begin with.
https://rennlist.com/forums/9545278-post1.html
When Izzone, Trakcar, Greek, Erik, M3EvoBr, Milkshake Man, Juan or I lose a wheel...then ya'll should be worried. Trakcar changed cars so frequently so he actually is not a good gauge but Erik has his car with tons of track days and Izzone does countless track days so those 2 guys are who I watch for CL issues.
3.) Independent, qualified verification: I will not repost the email from Manthey here but when I asked them about this subject in writing, their response to me was, "....if everyone took the time and care to change CL wheels---as we do---there would be no problems". I've heard a similar response from my tuner in North America, Orbit racing when I asked them the same question.
4.) Depreciation: Over the next two years the 997.2 GT3/RS used car market is going to get more and more supply as drivers want to upgrade to the 991 or just get out of their car entirely because the warranty is coming due. There is no escaping market forces, prices will drop, even for the venerable 4.0. What is probably going to be the biggest single determining factor for the delta in value of one 997 GT car over another? More than likely which car can qualify as a CPO and which ones can't. If you change to a 5 lug for peace of mind you will be paying for it on the back end b/c the car will automatically be DQ'd as a CPO car. Sure, there is always going to be that small minority of buyers out there that say I want a car that has been converted to 5's with all the track goodies already installed but they are in the minority. It is no secret that if you don't want to hand over your title to the $tealers for pennies on the dollar the best way to get the most money for your car is to convert it to stock, sell it out right and sell the track goodies on their own. If you change back to C/L's in order to improve the car's chances of getting CPO'd or selling it as "stock" chances are you've already sold your stock rims to finance the conversion and now you're spending the same amount of money to go backwards.
5.) Long Term Value: This item has nothing to do with the previous points on the merits of the C/L system and is purely subjective so take it for what it is worth. My 997.2 GT3 is probably the last new Porsche I will ever buy and I plan on keeping it for a long time. As such I want a long warranty to go with it. In Europe after the OEM warranty expires I can buy an extended warranty from Porsche every year for the next 9 years for around 1,600 Euros per year. The warranty is the same as the one that came with the car and covers any issues that occur on or off track except in the case of driver error, e.g. money shifts, etc....Since I want to be in compliance with the contract and track the car I need a second set of C/L rims. A second set costs around Euro 9,500 or $12,000 from Porsche. There is no way I am paying that for rims. I was lucky enough to buy a set of perfect used rims from a fellow RL'er for less than 1/4 of that. I am applying the difference towards the next 6 years of future warranty I intend to purchase. If I had converted to 5 lugs for peace of mind none of this would have been made available to me.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the question of converting or not to convert. It is a personal choice based on how you intend to use the car and how long you want to keep it. My sincere hope is that I do not read any more posts about wheels coming off, C/L's or otherwise.
10-29-2012, 01:10 PM
#74
I had my first weekend with CLs. It was a bit of a pain pain - but it brings all the GT3 owners together at the track. Solidarity! 
10-29-2012, 01:47 PM
#75
Interesting comments on this thread and others concerning this subject--thanks to all for posting them. IMO, C/L's are fine but I didn't come to this conclusion just because Porsche told me to think this way. I've spent a lot of time like every one else thinking about this issue and here are some of the reasons to back up my thinking:
1.) They are proven: There have been at least two OEM C/L street cars run in the 24H Nurburgring since 2011. A long endurance race that is as hard on the car as any out there with multiple high speed wheel changes and no wheel failures? At a DE the driver typically has an hour in between sessions to perform a wheel change if it is even warranted and he is not under the time pressure of a race. If you can't change the wheels within that time span correctly, chances are you probably shouldn't be doing the wheel change yourself to begin with.
https://rennlist.com/forums/9545278-post1.html
2.) ^ The weekend warrior: Exactly what Mike said. This is an excellent point of reference and I agree completely with this. Some of these cars have way more than 24H on the hubs. It is not an accident their wheels stay on and others don't. They are following the procedure to the letter. Are 5 lugs easier to deal with? Yes. Are C/L's unsafe? No.
3.) Independent, qualified verification: I will not repost the email from Manthey here but when I asked them about this subject in writing, their response to me was, "....if everyone took the time and care to change CL wheels---as we do---there would be no problems". I've heard a similar response from my tuner in North America, Orbit racing when I asked them the same question.
4.) Depreciation: Over the next two years the 997.2 GT3/RS used car market is going to get more and more supply as drivers want to upgrade to the 991 or just get out of their car entirely because the warranty is coming due. There is no escaping market forces, prices will drop, even for the venerable 4.0. What is probably going to be the biggest single determining factor for the delta in value of one 997 GT car over another? More than likely which car can qualify as a CPO and which ones can't. If you change to a 5 lug for peace of mind you will be paying for it on the back end b/c the car will automatically be DQ'd as a CPO car. Sure, there is always going to be that small minority of buyers out there that say I want a car that has been converted to 5's with all the track goodies already installed but they are in the minority. It is no secret that if you don't want to hand over your title to the $tealers for pennies on the dollar the best way to get the most money for your car is to convert it to stock, sell it out right and sell the track goodies on their own. If you change back to C/L's in order to improve the car's chances of getting CPO'd or selling it as "stock" chances are you've already sold your stock rims to finance the conversion and now you're spending the same amount of money to go backwards.
5.) Long Term Value: This item has nothing to do with the previous points on the merits of the C/L system and is purely subjective so take it for what it is worth. My 997.2 GT3 is probably the last new Porsche I will ever buy and I plan on keeping it for a long time. As such I want a long warranty to go with it. In Europe after the OEM warranty expires I can buy an extended warranty from Porsche every year for the next 9 years for around 1,600 Euros per year. The warranty is the same as the one that came with the car and covers any issues that occur on or off track except in the case of driver error, e.g. money shifts, etc....Since I want to be in compliance with the contract and track the car I need a second set of C/L rims. A second set costs around Euro 9,500 or $12,000 from Porsche. There is no way I am paying that for rims. I was lucky enough to buy a set of perfect used rims from a fellow RL'er for less than 1/4 of that. I am applying the difference towards the next 6 years of future warranty I intend to purchase. If I had converted to 5 lugs for peace of mind none of this would have been made available to me.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the question of converting or not to convert. It is a personal choice based on how you intend to use the car and how long you want to keep it. My sincere hope is that I do not read any more posts about wheels coming off, C/L's or otherwise.
1.) They are proven: There have been at least two OEM C/L street cars run in the 24H Nurburgring since 2011. A long endurance race that is as hard on the car as any out there with multiple high speed wheel changes and no wheel failures? At a DE the driver typically has an hour in between sessions to perform a wheel change if it is even warranted and he is not under the time pressure of a race. If you can't change the wheels within that time span correctly, chances are you probably shouldn't be doing the wheel change yourself to begin with.
https://rennlist.com/forums/9545278-post1.html
2.) ^ The weekend warrior: Exactly what Mike said. This is an excellent point of reference and I agree completely with this. Some of these cars have way more than 24H on the hubs. It is not an accident their wheels stay on and others don't. They are following the procedure to the letter. Are 5 lugs easier to deal with? Yes. Are C/L's unsafe? No.
3.) Independent, qualified verification: I will not repost the email from Manthey here but when I asked them about this subject in writing, their response to me was, "....if everyone took the time and care to change CL wheels---as we do---there would be no problems". I've heard a similar response from my tuner in North America, Orbit racing when I asked them the same question.
4.) Depreciation: Over the next two years the 997.2 GT3/RS used car market is going to get more and more supply as drivers want to upgrade to the 991 or just get out of their car entirely because the warranty is coming due. There is no escaping market forces, prices will drop, even for the venerable 4.0. What is probably going to be the biggest single determining factor for the delta in value of one 997 GT car over another? More than likely which car can qualify as a CPO and which ones can't. If you change to a 5 lug for peace of mind you will be paying for it on the back end b/c the car will automatically be DQ'd as a CPO car. Sure, there is always going to be that small minority of buyers out there that say I want a car that has been converted to 5's with all the track goodies already installed but they are in the minority. It is no secret that if you don't want to hand over your title to the $tealers for pennies on the dollar the best way to get the most money for your car is to convert it to stock, sell it out right and sell the track goodies on their own. If you change back to C/L's in order to improve the car's chances of getting CPO'd or selling it as "stock" chances are you've already sold your stock rims to finance the conversion and now you're spending the same amount of money to go backwards.
5.) Long Term Value: This item has nothing to do with the previous points on the merits of the C/L system and is purely subjective so take it for what it is worth. My 997.2 GT3 is probably the last new Porsche I will ever buy and I plan on keeping it for a long time. As such I want a long warranty to go with it. In Europe after the OEM warranty expires I can buy an extended warranty from Porsche every year for the next 9 years for around 1,600 Euros per year. The warranty is the same as the one that came with the car and covers any issues that occur on or off track except in the case of driver error, e.g. money shifts, etc....Since I want to be in compliance with the contract and track the car I need a second set of C/L rims. A second set costs around Euro 9,500 or $12,000 from Porsche. There is no way I am paying that for rims. I was lucky enough to buy a set of perfect used rims from a fellow RL'er for less than 1/4 of that. I am applying the difference towards the next 6 years of future warranty I intend to purchase. If I had converted to 5 lugs for peace of mind none of this would have been made available to me.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the question of converting or not to convert. It is a personal choice based on how you intend to use the car and how long you want to keep it. My sincere hope is that I do not read any more posts about wheels coming off, C/L's or otherwise.