991 GT3 driving around San Francisco today
10-05-2012, 06:08 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
Posts: 17,107
Likes: 0
Received 258 Likes
on
172 Posts
paddle shift is great for daily use and also faster on the track for D.E cup 
Stick is great fun for weekend drives however.... not sure how much fun the paddles will be for weekend pleasure cruising?
Stick is great fun for weekend drives however.... not sure how much fun the paddles will be for weekend pleasure cruising?
Last edited by tcsracing1; 10-05-2012 at 06:49 PM.
10-05-2012, 06:18 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
You are a stubborn young schooler! I'm a stubborn old schooler! And I hope to be buried with a Gt3 gear shift lever in my hand:banghead please remind P-nut of that should I forget!
10-05-2012, 06:48 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
Posts: 17,107
Likes: 0
Received 258 Likes
on
172 Posts
Only if I want to "win" my DE!
Heel & Toe takes time to learn, and is truly an art form... Sad to see it go away.
Comparably, I'm an avid skier and have not been a fan of the shape ski era. After a decade of allowing shape skis at the FIS level, the standards bodies have recently had a change of heart and are going back to "old school" straight skis. Full circle...
I'd love the PDK for the streets of SF, but give me a manual on the track please...
My $0.02,
-B
Heel & Toe takes time to learn, and is truly an art form... Sad to see it go away.
Comparably, I'm an avid skier and have not been a fan of the shape ski era. After a decade of allowing shape skis at the FIS level, the standards bodies have recently had a change of heart and are going back to "old school" straight skis. Full circle...
I'd love the PDK for the streets of SF, but give me a manual on the track please...
My $0.02,
-B
FIS has indeed decided to reduce sidecut on competition skis (for so called safety purposes on knees etc), thus performance of the skis will decrease (sadly) thereby requiring more "driver" input for them to perform. Kinda like the old skinny skis of the 80s-90s but they will still will have wayy more sidecut/shape then what we saw pre-2000.
Imagine the FIA no longer allowing sequential transmissions..... Bringing back the manuals as an attempt to keep speeds down...
10-05-2012, 06:59 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
hopefully someone will be enjoying the 3.9 long after I'm gone! Come to think of it I'm going to be cremated, so maybe tell him to just throw a shift **** in the ashes before spreading them along the loop!
thanks Pete
10-05-2012, 07:56 PM
#51
Race Car
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: With A Manual Transmission
Posts: 4,728
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Now, if it's about lap times or autocross times, I'll take PDK — because its performance advantage outweighs its weight penalty, no matter which manual you choose to stack it up against. On-power shifts, added concentration on other aspects of driving, etc. all add up to an unfair advantage that any competitor would be crazy not to want...
pete
Of course since Porsche has based the manual transmission on the PDK and it's now super heavy, that goes out of the window. The writing is on the wall. Porsche is going to force PDK on us.
10-05-2012, 08:04 PM
#52
The Cup car sequential gear box is such an advantage compared to the 996 Cup with old school tranny. I can't see a paddle shifting race car at disadvantage to a manual. Don't get me wrong: I love manual shifting but this has nothing to do with lap times.
10-05-2012, 08:14 PM
#53
Instructor
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Big Bend region of West Texas/Hill Country near Austin. Texas
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fear that Porsche no longer sees 'drivers', just commuters with deep pockets who wish to be seen in a "Porsche". Sales, sales, sales!!!!!
You see the same phenomena with would-be 'hardy ourdoorsmen' driving around the inner city in a Jeep. Seeking an image at whatever level their budgets will allow.
10-05-2012, 08:18 PM
#54
Race Director
Depends on skill level and car modifications. Of course you can overcome the weight penalty with more hp. But all other things equal a skilled driver will put a manual with a lightweight clutch/flywheel on top of a PDK with a 120 - 130 lbs weight penalty.
Of course since Porsche has based the manual transmission on the PDK and it's now super heavy, that goes out of the window. The writing is on the wall. Porsche is going to force PDK on us.
Of course since Porsche has based the manual transmission on the PDK and it's now super heavy, that goes out of the window. The writing is on the wall. Porsche is going to force PDK on us.
10-05-2012, 08:29 PM
#55
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SF/SEA
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would seem VW's influence is pulling the strings these days encouraging Porsche to cater to all the commuters who want an automatic transmission to navigate the stoplights between Starbucks and the office.
I fear that Porsche no longer sees 'drivers', just commuters with deep pockets who wish to be seen in a "Porsche". Sales, sales, sales!!!!!
You see the same phenomena with would-be 'hardy ourdoorsmen' driving around the inner city in a Jeep. Seeking an image at whatever level their budgets will allow.
I fear that Porsche no longer sees 'drivers', just commuters with deep pockets who wish to be seen in a "Porsche". Sales, sales, sales!!!!!
You see the same phenomena with would-be 'hardy ourdoorsmen' driving around the inner city in a Jeep. Seeking an image at whatever level their budgets will allow.
10-05-2012, 08:31 PM
#56
Race Director
10-05-2012, 09:07 PM
#58
After seeing the 991S Ring-video that "daddyscar" posted in the other thread, I'm sold! On the PDK that is. It even seemed to have the autoblipper which sounds cool. I enjoy a manual and own 5 "stick-car" (Audi's, VW's and Porsche's) which are a lot of fun on the open road with little traffic to worry about. I even loved it on the German Autobahn rowing the rented 4CS trough all the gears up to nearly 300km/h. BUT, when it comes to the track (and the drive home on a clogged, accident-ridden freeway), I wish I had a "well-working" automatic in my GT3. Maybe the rest of the country with larger tracks and more shifting required would benefit/enjoy a manual but on our tight California tracks, most of the times one doesn't get out of 3rd gear. Take Sears Point as an example, I shift twice, maybe three times at most (into 2nd at T11 and into 4th at T12 and then back to 3rd. In addition, in our DE (aka street) cars, the shifter is way low and really not in the right place. Since I only drive the GT3 to/from/on the track, I would gladly take "quick-firing" paddles like the ones in a Ferrari. Unfortunately, up to now (and maybe still?), the Porsche PDK was/is not smart enough to up/downshift properly. When I testdrove a 991S earlier this year, it was either so lame when the PDK up-shifted from 3rd into 7th or so violent when it down-shifted from 7th into 3rd. The PDK in that Ring-video, however, sounded just perfect. So maybe, they upgraded it, giving it more "brain" or is the Ring with its fairly high speeds compared to most NA tracks just right for the PDK?
10-05-2012, 09:12 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wishing I Was At The Track
Posts: 13,599
Received 1,837 Likes
on
953 Posts
+1 on the first point, and an enjoyable art form that PDK cannot replace for those who appreciate/enjoy it. For those who don't, PDK is a no-brainer.
One of the best parts of living in SF for ten years was learning to adapt heel-toe technique to use on those steep uphill starts, and eventually all uphill starts. You've got the brake with the left side of your right foot, and roll over the gas with the right side of your right foot as you feel the clutch take up. Result: seamless getaways without having to use a hand on the e-brake and with NO excessive clutch slip. Even in a C-GT. Made driving around SF a cinch and a little more fun in a manual, and it still does whenever I am in the city.
I respect PDK, but two years with it in a Cayman S only served to convince me that I am a manual guy when it comes to road cars, through and through. The day Porsche stops building the models I like with a manual transmission is the day my attention will focus on its previous offerings. Feel free to call me a luddite, but I've tried to come over to the new side and don't care for it. For me.
Now, if it's about lap times or autocross times, I'll take PDK — because its performance advantage outweighs its weight penalty, no matter which manual you choose to stack it up against. On-power shifts, added concentration on other aspects of driving, etc. all add up to an unfair advantage that any competitor would be crazy not to want...
pete
One of the best parts of living in SF for ten years was learning to adapt heel-toe technique to use on those steep uphill starts, and eventually all uphill starts. You've got the brake with the left side of your right foot, and roll over the gas with the right side of your right foot as you feel the clutch take up. Result: seamless getaways without having to use a hand on the e-brake and with NO excessive clutch slip. Even in a C-GT. Made driving around SF a cinch and a little more fun in a manual, and it still does whenever I am in the city.
I respect PDK, but two years with it in a Cayman S only served to convince me that I am a manual guy when it comes to road cars, through and through. The day Porsche stops building the models I like with a manual transmission is the day my attention will focus on its previous offerings. Feel free to call me a luddite, but I've tried to come over to the new side and don't care for it. For me.
Now, if it's about lap times or autocross times, I'll take PDK — because its performance advantage outweighs its weight penalty, no matter which manual you choose to stack it up against. On-power shifts, added concentration on other aspects of driving, etc. all add up to an unfair advantage that any competitor would be crazy not to want...
pete