911rox

Hi guys,

I run two sets of wheels, an Rspec (currently MPSC oem) for dry days and MPSS as my wet weather/daily drive tyre... I drive to track and back so Hoosier or similar isn't an option.

Looking at options to try other than Cups for my R spec (dry tyre). I know that Trofeo Rs are getting great reviews but tire rack don't stock them, other US stockists can't ship them for less than $3k + taxes and local suppliers here in Australia want $3700 for a set, a price I'm not willing to pay for 3-4 track days....

As Toyo R888 are also not liked here amongst those more knowledgeable, I'm looking to try the N1 Pirelli Corsa Systems as I feel they are a good compromise and will seemingly still perform in damp conditions (Showers often forecast during our track season so typically I go with wet set up if so forecast to ensure a full day on the track and only get a shower or two so the better part of the day is spent on a dry track which is harsh on the MPSSs)...

My questions:

- For those whom have previously used them, how many heat cycles can I expect from the Pirelli Corsa systems? Will they heat cycle out before they are done tread wise as is the case with the Cups I currently run?

- Will they outperform the MPSS on a dry track? I find the MPSS struggle for grip under heavy braking in the dry and can't keep up with the braking system...

Any advice and opinions greatly appreciated.... Car 2010 gt3 running 19" wheels both sets....

Cheers

Chris

savyboy

Hi Chris,

I found the CS to be grippier than the MPSC when the CS were newish. After a couple trackdays they then seemed to get hard as a rock and slippery as heck. So I loved them new and hated them after approx 10 HC. MPSC always seemed to be the same until they were worn out.

Curious if anyone else had similar experience.

A shame on the Trofeo situation down there

10 GT3

First, MPSS are not track tires. They are street tires and don't seem to be any faster than MPS2s. Remember that MPSS even has a treadwear warranty, hence they are designed for good street grip over a long life versus a dedicated track tire that is optimized for grip. R888s are fantastic when new as long as the temperatures aren't too hot. I ran my fastest lap times, over Corsas and MPSCs, on new R888s on a cool day. On a hot day or when over heated, you will only be sliding around on them.

Per comments above, MPSCs are the most consistent throughout their life. They also have higher dry grip when new. Corsas seem to even up with them after a couple of heat cycles and then slowly fade across their life. The real decision between Corsas and MPSCs really comes down to 1 question, are you going to drive the car in the wet? I can drive 9/10s on R888s in the rain, 8/10s on Corsas and maybe 4/10s on MPSCs. MPSCs are down right dangerous in the wet as they have no ability to channel water, versus a Corsa or R888. R888 do a fantastic job channeling water new, but this diminishes at about half tread. Corsas do a good job channeling water throughout their life. I have my 4th set of Corsas on my GT3 due to the fact I leave 1 set of tires on the car all the time and I have a need to occasionally drive in the rain.

If you want higher dry grip, you might want to the Trofeo or Trofeo R. Both have more dry grip than the tires previously listed, but a much shorter life. They are also more picky about alignment settings (you will need more camber) and grind down quickly when over driven.

NJ-GT

Corsa System suck. I had them as OEM in the Fiat, ran a tire test for a few weeks every Tuesday in California, the full street tire RE11 beat it.

ir_fuel

I thought they stopped producing the Pirelli Corsa?

911rox

Hey Savy, yeah the trofeo situation sux down here which is a real shame... Tirerack have amazing shipping rates but don't offer that tyre... If your description of the PCSs is correct, I would be best sticking with the MPSC for dry as they have gradually fallen away in performance like you described and much of it had to do with the fact that they copped many heat cycles for street driving as the original tyres on the car before they were pulled off and used as dedicated track tyres...

Most track days happen during the wetter months here, april to November so if I get a forecast for showers, the MPS2 and MPSS remain on the car... If the PCSs harden after a couple of days, they won't be of much help as an r spec on a mildly moist day...

10gt3, totally agree about the MPSS but with the situation rearding weather as it is stated above, and knowing how dangerous the MPSC can be in the wet, I make the call the night before and run with that... Sometimes we get the forecast showers and the MPSS perform well, sometimes those showers don't come and they cop a 400 km beating in the dry ( where the cups would have been better)... Its a lottery but I prefer to run the tyre that will allows me to run regardless of conditions if that makes sense... This is where I thought PCSs may be of benefit...

10gt3, how many heat cycles do you get from your PCSs? Do they harden and become less usable as described by Savy? Do they remain usable to the end of their treadlife on the track in your experience?

911rox

Really Rad? We can't get RE11 here but I can ship them from tirerack... Any better that MPSS on the track?

Can definitely get them irfuel... I know they had said they are discontinued but tirerack have 2012 vintage in stock, rears on backorder and due next month...

ir_fuel

Strange. It seems Pirelli keeps on changing their mind about them every X months. Are the ones you are getting N-spec?

NJ-GT

I'm switching from RE11 to MPSS in the Fiat and Coxtser before years's end, I love the RE11 and they have proven fast in my Cayman at National level SCCA AutoX events, I hold a few fats track times on them with the Cayman and Fiat. I did plenty of Hoosier/RE11 track days comparing data, so I'm going to do the same with MPSS and Hoosiers.

If you have a GT3RS, you can fit the MPSC 345/30R19 with a rear wheel with 1/2" (12mm) more offset, this is the spec tire from the ViperACR, a super stick MPSC that is the race spec MPSC, at the front run the 265/30R19 (also a race-spec not a N-Spec). At my last Homestead racetrack event, I ran one day on old MPSC (265/345) and another day on Hoosier A6 (fresh 295/345), the lap time difference was just 3.5 secs, so on fresh MPSC it would have been plenty closer, somewhere in the 2+ secs, the Hoosier A6 sticks better than plenty of full slicks.

Another option, the Hankook RS3, very fast and long lasting full street tire, get them shaved, I have talked to a guy running them shaved at track events, and his lap times in a Honda S2000 are quite decent. The RS3 would be my choice for a non-race tire on a narrow body standard GT3.

911rox

N1 spec ir... And DOT 12 dated apparently....

Yeah, I've got a narrow body 2010 gt3 so the non N MPSC won't work

Were you getting your RE 11s shaved or as is?

What depth would I be requesting with the RS3? 5-6/32"?

911GT3

I have your car, 2010 997.2 GT3. I would agree with having a set of MPSS for the rain, and take them with you if possible even if you think you are running in the dry--just in case. The MPSCs are like slicks in the rain--as you know. I found the Corsas to lose grip before tread, and got maybe 12-16 heat cycles before they were no longer fun. I get 20-24 out of my MPSCs, and they still have rubber but are getting slippery--albeit not as slippery as the Corsas in the end. I have started to follow the tire hardness with a durometer, more for interest than anything, as I replace when the handling tells me, not the durometer, but over time it may be interesting comparing tires, etc. I am ordering a set of Trofeo Rs this week, and am curious as to how they will perform. But, unless one of my partners switches a day with me, cannot run them until November.

911rox

Thanks 911GT3... From what you, Savy and Rad have suggested, I'm best not bothering with the Corsa systems... They don't sound like the right solution with so few HCs...

At this point, I'd say I'll be settling on another set of MPSC unless tirerack are able to oblige with some shaving of MPSS or Hankook RS3s as suggested by Rad... Not sure if they offer the service though...

10 GT3

I get 8-12 track days (3-4 heat cycles a day) + ~4K miles on the street out of a set. They harden very slowly. You just start losing grip at a slow rate across their life. Even at 1/32 (end of life), Corsas were still grippier than regular street tires. They go away a lot slower than the cliff you go off when MPSCs are toast (about 1-2/32s).

On their slowest days, my Corsas are consistently faster than either MPSCs or R888s on their slowest days. They are just not as fast as new R888s on a day in the 70's or MPSCs on a day in the 80's. The Corsas are definitely the most consistent out of the 3 tires across their life. They just start out with less dry grip.

I would not bother spending money to shave MPSS or Hankook R-S3s. They are just street tires. Shaving them isn't going to change the composition of the rubber, just shorten the life span.

911rox

Thanks so much for the feedback 10 gt3! What you describe, I can live with so I think I'll give them a go... My instructor had similar feedback on them this morning and if they don't time out as quickly as the cups, it will be a bonus... Both sets of my Cups have heat cycled out and gone greasy upon hitting the wear indicators, both after 2 track days (5-6 sessions each), presumably because the street driving I did day to day also added heat cycles.... As I now run 2 sets of wheels, I'll just save the r- specs for track days and make sure they don't cop heat cycles doing city driving... The MPSS will do that and the rainy track days....

My driving ability is a greater limiting factor to my laptimes than tyres in any case for the moment

It would be nice to be able to turn up to a track day with light showers forecast on r specs that won't put me into the wall in the event of some moisture, yet will cope with a day of driving if the said showers don't eventuate... As is all too often the case...

I'd give shaved tyres a try but I have two issues (i) can't find anyone local that does it and (ii) if I get tirerack to do it before shipping I'm likely to have issues with customs thinking they are used... Very strict with importation of tyres and I don't won't to deal with their rubbish...

If I can find someone local that shaves, I will make this plan B...

Thanx also to the other guys for your advice...

aussie jimmy

ask peter fitzgerald - he is sure to know something/somebody