Will 450hp be Enough for 991 GT3?
06-22-2012, 04:47 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Just a few points to keep this in context:
1. The 997.2 powerkit developed 408HP. The 997.2 GT3 had 435; a difference of 27HP.
2. The 991 powerkit will make 430HP. Even if the 991 GT3 makes only the rumored 450 that's not a hugely different delta than between the previous cars. My guess is it will be a bit more than 450, but if it's not, we're not talking about a big change from the status quo.
3. I get the concerns about HP and the competition. I'd like to see Porsche up the ante, and I think they should. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate. The current GT3 RS makes 450HP. I haven't seen many complaints about folks wanting to trade theirs in because it's underpowered. Why is a new likely lighter-than-an-RS 991 GT3 with 450HP underpowered, but a current RS with 450HP isn't?
Just askin'.....
1. The 997.2 powerkit developed 408HP. The 997.2 GT3 had 435; a difference of 27HP.
2. The 991 powerkit will make 430HP. Even if the 991 GT3 makes only the rumored 450 that's not a hugely different delta than between the previous cars. My guess is it will be a bit more than 450, but if it's not, we're not talking about a big change from the status quo.
3. I get the concerns about HP and the competition. I'd like to see Porsche up the ante, and I think they should. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate. The current GT3 RS makes 450HP. I haven't seen many complaints about folks wanting to trade theirs in because it's underpowered. Why is a new likely lighter-than-an-RS 991 GT3 with 450HP underpowered, but a current RS with 450HP isn't?
Just askin'.....
.2 +1
.3 +1
well said!
06-22-2012, 05:03 PM
#17
Race Director
No doubt; some people always want more power and the 4.0 is the ticket in that regard. But that doesn't necessarily mean power in the RS is inadequate and I don't see a big rush to dump 3.8 RS's for that reason; owners still wax eloquently about them (rightly so) and used ones get snapped up pretty quickly.....
06-22-2012, 05:15 PM
#19
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Just a few points to keep this in context:
1. The 997.2 powerkit developed 408HP. The 997.2 GT3 had 435; a difference of 27HP.
2. The 991 powerkit will make 430HP. Even if the 991 GT3 makes only the rumored 450 that's not a hugely different delta than between the previous cars. My guess is it will be a bit more than 450, but if it's not, we're not talking about a big change from the status quo.
3. I get the concerns about HP and the competition. I'd like to see Porsche up the ante, and I think they should. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate. The current GT3 RS makes 450HP. I haven't seen many complaints about folks wanting to trade theirs in because it's underpowered. Why is a new likely lighter-than-an-RS 991 GT3 with 450HP underpowered, but a current RS with 450HP isn't?
Just askin'.....
1. The 997.2 powerkit developed 408HP. The 997.2 GT3 had 435; a difference of 27HP.
2. The 991 powerkit will make 430HP. Even if the 991 GT3 makes only the rumored 450 that's not a hugely different delta than between the previous cars. My guess is it will be a bit more than 450, but if it's not, we're not talking about a big change from the status quo.
3. I get the concerns about HP and the competition. I'd like to see Porsche up the ante, and I think they should. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate. The current GT3 RS makes 450HP. I haven't seen many complaints about folks wanting to trade theirs in because it's underpowered. Why is a new likely lighter-than-an-RS 991 GT3 with 450HP underpowered, but a current RS with 450HP isn't?
Just askin'.....
The 997 generation simply proved that the Porsche market simply does not care if their car is among the fastest. They will buy anyways. So we should not expect Porsche to bring the fight to Corvette, Viper, Ferrari etc.
A shame really.
06-22-2012, 05:37 PM
#20
Race Director
Good points, imo Porsche has its market cornered, people will run out and buy the GT3 even if all of the competition blow its doors off. Then they will sell a slightly upgraded version and tack on 30 hp (and 50k) even if the competition still blows its doors off.
The 997 generation simply proved that the Porsche market simply does not care if their car is among the fastest. They will buy anyways. So we should not expect Porsche to bring the fight to Corvette, Viper, Ferrari etc.
A shame really.
The 997 generation simply proved that the Porsche market simply does not care if their car is among the fastest. They will buy anyways. So we should not expect Porsche to bring the fight to Corvette, Viper, Ferrari etc.
A shame really.
You're right; Porsche knows their market and has it cornered. Maybe that is a shame as it can lead to complacency, but fortunately I don't think it's gone that far. It would be a much bigger shame if Porsche stopped making desireable cars and we all had to drive Vipers.
06-22-2012, 06:38 PM
#21
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Good points, imo Porsche has its market cornered, people will run out and buy the GT3 even if all of the competition blow its doors off. Then they will sell a slightly upgraded version and tack on 30 hp (and 50k) even if the competition still blows its doors off.
The 997 generation simply proved that the Porsche market simply does not care if their car is among the fastest. They will buy anyways. So we should not expect Porsche to bring the fight to Corvette, Viper, Ferrari etc.
A shame really.
The 997 generation simply proved that the Porsche market simply does not care if their car is among the fastest. They will buy anyways. So we should not expect Porsche to bring the fight to Corvette, Viper, Ferrari etc.
A shame really.
Their just not THE Fastest.
I like on how the advertisement it says with the extra 30 BHP it can do 3.9 with the PDK and Launch Control.
Heck the magazines have been doing 3.7 second Naught to 60s with the plain jane 400 BHP Carrera S with PDK and SC++.
Love how they understate their stats.
06-22-2012, 06:56 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Just a few points to keep this in context:
1. The 997.2 powerkit developed 408HP. The 997.2 GT3 had 435; a difference of 27HP.
2. The 991 powerkit will make 430HP. Even if the 991 GT3 makes only the rumored 450 that's not a hugely different delta than between the previous cars. My guess is it will be a bit more than 450, but if it's not, we're not talking about a big change from the status quo.
3. I get the concerns about HP and the competition. I'd like to see Porsche up the ante, and I think they should. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate. The current GT3 RS makes 450HP. I haven't seen many complaints about folks wanting to trade theirs in because it's underpowered. Why is a new likely lighter-than-an-RS 991 GT3 with 450HP underpowered, but a current RS with 450HP isn't?
Just askin'.....
1. The 997.2 powerkit developed 408HP. The 997.2 GT3 had 435; a difference of 27HP.
2. The 991 powerkit will make 430HP. Even if the 991 GT3 makes only the rumored 450 that's not a hugely different delta than between the previous cars. My guess is it will be a bit more than 450, but if it's not, we're not talking about a big change from the status quo.
3. I get the concerns about HP and the competition. I'd like to see Porsche up the ante, and I think they should. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate. The current GT3 RS makes 450HP. I haven't seen many complaints about folks wanting to trade theirs in because it's underpowered. Why is a new likely lighter-than-an-RS 991 GT3 with 450HP underpowered, but a current RS with 450HP isn't?
Just askin'.....
If the 500hp RS 4.0 had been available in greater quantities and at a more reasonable price, I think you would have seen just about everybody on this board make a play for one.
06-22-2012, 08:48 PM
#24
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The 997 generation are among the fastest...
Their just not THE Fastest.
I like on how the advertisement it says with the extra 30 BHP it can do 3.9 with the PDK and Launch Control.
Heck the magazines have been doing 3.7 second Naught to 60s with the plain jane 400 BHP Carrera S with PDK and SC++.
Love how they understate their stats.
Their just not THE Fastest.
I like on how the advertisement it says with the extra 30 BHP it can do 3.9 with the PDK and Launch Control.
Heck the magazines have been doing 3.7 second Naught to 60s with the plain jane 400 BHP Carrera S with PDK and SC++.
Love how they understate their stats.
It's a shame that Porsche is charging well over 200k for a GT3 and it's still not as fast as a Z06 with the same weight/power ratio.
The .2 RS should have been 500 hp and the 4.0 525 to stay at the very least even with the competition. Porsche as settling for second best, and soon it will be 3rd best, 4th and next thing you know Porsche will be Lambo, or Audi with name, history and prestige only. It's also showing in racing how complacent Porsche has been, the RSR's are an embarrassment to even watch now.
06-22-2012, 09:03 PM
#25
Race Director
The 997 RSR has been very successful, but it's now at the end of it's useful life compared to the competition. The problem isn't HP, as that is pretty much regulated by restrictor size, it's the platform. The changes that the 991 is bringing relative to wheelbase, track, engine location, etc. have been roundly (and I think unfairly) criticized by some for the street car but they are what are required to make the 911 potentially competitive on track again. We'll see whether they work or whether Porsche has to move away from the rear engine layout altogether to stay in the game. Personally, I think they will find a way to make it work; wishful thinking maybe......
Last edited by Mike in CA; 06-22-2012 at 09:30 PM.
06-22-2012, 09:10 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Ne ones ideas on what the 991 cupcars will be speced out as well as the rsr. They ain't doing well as is rt now. Pretty bad luck with flying lizard this season. Mike
06-22-2012, 09:38 PM
#28
991 GT3 RS will produce over 500bhp...
The arrival of the 991 Carrera S Powerkit should be a positive indication for GT3 owners as it would UNTHINKABLE for Porsche to announce the 991 GT3 with the same (horrific) Aerokit package, the same 9A1 engine with a few extra bhp and only available with PDK.
There was a serious concern that the 991 GT3 would be more like a Carrera S that had just got been for a long-weekend at a tuning house, rather than a genuine GT homologated racer adapted for road and track use, with a motorsport proven engine and gearbox.
Porsche will need to put clear water between the 991 Carrera S Powerkit and the 991 GT3 to maintain the excellent reputation of the GT3 heritage built by Andreas Preuninger and the team of Porsche Motorsport engineers at Weissach, so no need to manage down expectations. Porsche Motorsport knows how to be successful and profitable in motorsport and understand that they need to be competitive in international GT racing to maintain the racing and commercial success.
Moreover, it is perfectly reasonable for existing GT3 RS customers to expect that the specifications of the 991 GT3 RS will be above that of the awesome 997 GT3 RS 4.0 with over 500bhp from a Porsche Motorsport dry-sump engine... surely Porsche Motorsport engineers have worked out how to fit DFI headers to that awesome GT3 RS 4.0 engine with a red line at 9000rpm!
The customer order book for the 991 GT3 RS would fill up faster than a lap of the Nurburgring...
Also look forward to hearing the RS Spyder's motorsport engine -- as developed for the 918 Spyder (excluding the hybrid drive) with a 4.6-litre V8 producing 570bhp and 9000rpm -- in the new Porsche 960 to compete with the Ferrari 458 Italia...
There was a serious concern that the 991 GT3 would be more like a Carrera S that had just got been for a long-weekend at a tuning house, rather than a genuine GT homologated racer adapted for road and track use, with a motorsport proven engine and gearbox.
Porsche will need to put clear water between the 991 Carrera S Powerkit and the 991 GT3 to maintain the excellent reputation of the GT3 heritage built by Andreas Preuninger and the team of Porsche Motorsport engineers at Weissach, so no need to manage down expectations. Porsche Motorsport knows how to be successful and profitable in motorsport and understand that they need to be competitive in international GT racing to maintain the racing and commercial success.
Moreover, it is perfectly reasonable for existing GT3 RS customers to expect that the specifications of the 991 GT3 RS will be above that of the awesome 997 GT3 RS 4.0 with over 500bhp from a Porsche Motorsport dry-sump engine... surely Porsche Motorsport engineers have worked out how to fit DFI headers to that awesome GT3 RS 4.0 engine with a red line at 9000rpm!
The customer order book for the 991 GT3 RS would fill up faster than a lap of the Nurburgring...
Also look forward to hearing the RS Spyder's motorsport engine -- as developed for the 918 Spyder (excluding the hybrid drive) with a 4.6-litre V8 producing 570bhp and 9000rpm -- in the new Porsche 960 to compete with the Ferrari 458 Italia...
06-22-2012, 09:53 PM
#29
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460 would be consistent and I think that's possible. 470-475 is optomistic, IMO, but I hope you're right.
No doubt; no one turns down more HP at a reasonable price. I'll say one more time, though, that doesn't mean that people are actually bummed by 450 in the current car, which was my original point. I may have missed them, but I haven't seen any ongoing threads titled, "450HP isn't Enough for the 997 3.8 RS".
The 997 RSR has been very successful, but it's now at the end of it's useful life compared to the competition. The problem isn't HP, as that is pretty much regulated by restrictor size, it's the platform. The changes that the 991 is bringing relative to wheelbase, track, engine location, etc. have been roundly (and I think unfairly) criticized by some for the street car but they are what are required to make the 911 potentially competitive on track again. We'll see whether they work or whether Porsche has to move away from the rear engine layout altogether to stay in the game. Personally, I think they will find a way to make it work; wishful thinking maybe......
No doubt; no one turns down more HP at a reasonable price. I'll say one more time, though, that doesn't mean that people are actually bummed by 450 in the current car, which was my original point. I may have missed them, but I haven't seen any ongoing threads titled, "450HP isn't Enough for the 997 3.8 RS".
The 997 RSR has been very successful, but it's now at the end of it's useful life compared to the competition. The problem isn't HP, as that is pretty much regulated by restrictor size, it's the platform. The changes that the 991 is bringing relative to wheelbase, track, engine location, etc. have been roundly (and I think unfairly) criticized by some for the street car but they are what are required to make the 911 potentially competitive on track again. We'll see whether they work or whether Porsche has to move away from the rear engine layout altogether to stay in the game. Personally, I think they will find a way to make it work; wishful thinking maybe......
You could see it coming from a mile away. Its been even worse in Europe.
06-22-2012, 10:46 PM
#30
Race Director
The arrival of the 991 Carrera S Powerkit should be a positive indication for GT3 owners as it would UNTHINKABLE for Porsche to announce the 991 GT3 with the same (horrific) Aerokit package, the same 9A1 engine with a few extra bhp and only available with PDK.
There was a serious concern that the 991 GT3 would be more like a Carrera S that had just got been for a long-weekend at a tuning house, rather than a genuine GT homologated racer adapted for road and track use, with a motorsport proven engine and gearbox.
Porsche will need to put clear water between the 991 Carrera S Powerkit and the 991 GT3 to maintain the excellent reputation of the GT3 heritage built by Andreas Preuninger and the team of Porsche Motorsport engineers at Weissach, so no need to manage down expectations. Porsche Motorsport knows how to be successful and profitable in motorsport and understand that they need to be competitive in international GT racing to maintain the racing and commercial success.
Moreover, it is perfectly reasonable for existing GT3 RS customers to expect that the specifications of the 991 GT3 RS will be above that of the awesome 997 GT3 RS 4.0 with over 500bhp from a Porsche Motorsport dry-sump engine... surely Porsche Motorsport engineers have worked out how to fit DFI headers to that awesome GT3 RS 4.0 engine with a red line at 9000rpm!
The customer order book for the 991 GT3 RS would fill up faster than a lap of the Nurburgring...
Also look forward to hearing the RS Spyder's motorsport engine -- as developed for the 918 Spyder (excluding the hybrid drive) with a 4.6-litre V8 producing 570bhp and 9000rpm -- in the new Porsche 960 to compete with the Ferrari 458 Italia...
There was a serious concern that the 991 GT3 would be more like a Carrera S that had just got been for a long-weekend at a tuning house, rather than a genuine GT homologated racer adapted for road and track use, with a motorsport proven engine and gearbox.
Porsche will need to put clear water between the 991 Carrera S Powerkit and the 991 GT3 to maintain the excellent reputation of the GT3 heritage built by Andreas Preuninger and the team of Porsche Motorsport engineers at Weissach, so no need to manage down expectations. Porsche Motorsport knows how to be successful and profitable in motorsport and understand that they need to be competitive in international GT racing to maintain the racing and commercial success.
Moreover, it is perfectly reasonable for existing GT3 RS customers to expect that the specifications of the 991 GT3 RS will be above that of the awesome 997 GT3 RS 4.0 with over 500bhp from a Porsche Motorsport dry-sump engine... surely Porsche Motorsport engineers have worked out how to fit DFI headers to that awesome GT3 RS 4.0 engine with a red line at 9000rpm!
The customer order book for the 991 GT3 RS would fill up faster than a lap of the Nurburgring...
Also look forward to hearing the RS Spyder's motorsport engine -- as developed for the 918 Spyder (excluding the hybrid drive) with a 4.6-litre V8 producing 570bhp and 9000rpm -- in the new Porsche 960 to compete with the Ferrari 458 Italia...