New Alignment Thread '11 gt3 rs
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 13
From: Charlotte, NC
New Alignment Thread '11 gt3 rs
'11 GT3RS First impressions with New Alignment. The set up is based upon my request for alignment setting capable of driving to/from track events and spirited mountain driving.
Switched out Mich Cups for Mich super sports
Cost of alignment: $390.00
measurements all in degrees (')
Original Set-up
FRONT: - 0.9' camber / +0.31' total toe (L 0.18'/ R 0.13')
REAR: - 2.0' camber / +0.30' total toe (L 0.18'/ R 0.13')
CURRENT Set-up
FRONT: - 1.5' camber / - 0.01' total toe (L 0.00'/ R 0.01')
REAR: - 1.9' camber / +0.44' total toe (L 0.23'/ R 0.21')
highway driving: steering feels a little disconnected - not as aggressive when wagging front end - steering seems not as responsive when slight turning back and forth at higher speeds (motion to warm up tires ), not as planted on turn-in. I know signs of classic understeer, but so far, up to 60-70mph exit ramps car is still on rails.
I'd hoped to revisit CMP to compare ride with original set up (run 2 weeks ago), but won't make it. ...So I guess the best thing is to run it over the weekend (3-400 miles) and see how it behaves on my daily drive up and down the Blue Ridge.
Does anyone see any faults - or care to pass along any concerns I should be aware of before heading out?
Many thanks
Switched out Mich Cups for Mich super sports
Cost of alignment: $390.00
measurements all in degrees (')
Original Set-up
FRONT: - 0.9' camber / +0.31' total toe (L 0.18'/ R 0.13')
REAR: - 2.0' camber / +0.30' total toe (L 0.18'/ R 0.13')
CURRENT Set-up
FRONT: - 1.5' camber / - 0.01' total toe (L 0.00'/ R 0.01')
REAR: - 1.9' camber / +0.44' total toe (L 0.23'/ R 0.21')
highway driving: steering feels a little disconnected - not as aggressive when wagging front end - steering seems not as responsive when slight turning back and forth at higher speeds (motion to warm up tires ), not as planted on turn-in. I know signs of classic understeer, but so far, up to 60-70mph exit ramps car is still on rails.
I'd hoped to revisit CMP to compare ride with original set up (run 2 weeks ago), but won't make it. ...So I guess the best thing is to run it over the weekend (3-400 miles) and see how it behaves on my daily drive up and down the Blue Ridge.
Does anyone see any faults - or care to pass along any concerns I should be aware of before heading out?
Many thanks
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 245
From: Tampa, FL
i am not sure how cups differ from NT01's, but they are both a R compound street tire, so they should have similar alignments.
Compare mine: F 2.5 - 0mm Toe (some people like +.2mm OUT)
R 1.7 - 4mm Toe IN
This setup is what I recommend to friends who drive to the track, while trying to minimize tire wear on street (Key word is "try") I personally love this setup, as I have my tire wear dialed down. When they start to cord, entire tire has even wear. With your setup, the more camber in rear, the sooner you will cord just on street.
Compare mine: F 2.5 - 0mm Toe (some people like +.2mm OUT)
R 1.7 - 4mm Toe IN
This setup is what I recommend to friends who drive to the track, while trying to minimize tire wear on street (Key word is "try") I personally love this setup, as I have my tire wear dialed down. When they start to cord, entire tire has even wear. With your setup, the more camber in rear, the sooner you will cord just on street.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 13
From: Charlotte, NC
we are very close except for front camber by 1' if you are - 2.5'
do you think that 1' could be responsible for the less aggressive turn in I describe? - I can get shims to get that extra 1' if so - I just don't want to lower it any more...
Thanks for your reply
do you think that 1' could be responsible for the less aggressive turn in I describe? - I can get shims to get that extra 1' if so - I just don't want to lower it any more...
Thanks for your reply
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 3
From: Ocala, FL
I'm not a GT3 but have set up alignments on my S and current Turbo and I run:
-2.6F with 0 toe and factory castor
-2.0R with .12 toe-in each side
Cost of alignment $149 ( lifetime checks and adjustments with this car).
-2.6F with 0 toe and factory castor
-2.0R with .12 toe-in each side
Cost of alignment $149 ( lifetime checks and adjustments with this car).
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,397
Likes: 354
From: Florida
either you have a typo or your car has toe out in the rear......you need negative toe in the rear and zero to slight toe out in the front
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 3
From: Ocala, FL
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Pro
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 695
Likes: 107
From: South Florida
Your numbers look good or at least good enough.
TOE in to everyone is a positive number, which he has is the rear.
TOE out is a negative number, which is bad in the rear and which he doesn't have.
I think the differences that you are unhappy about is the switch of the TIRES.....sport cup much better tire and OEM for the car....Super Sports not as good as the CUPS
TOE in to everyone is a positive number, which he has is the rear.
TOE out is a negative number, which is bad in the rear and which he doesn't have.
I think the differences that you are unhappy about is the switch of the TIRES.....sport cup much better tire and OEM for the car....Super Sports not as good as the CUPS
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Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 15,362
Likes: 199
From: Tampa
zero toe in the front on my cars gives me a little bit of that dead space when the wheel is centered while driving on the street. No big issue to me. I tried the .5mm toe out per side on the front and it felt great but it really wore out the edge of the inside of my front tires at the track.
You camber is odd to me for a performance type of set up....for the street it's ok but for tracking the car and a more performance type of set up the front should have more camber than the rear.
You camber is odd to me for a performance type of set up....for the street it's ok but for tracking the car and a more performance type of set up the front should have more camber than the rear.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 13
From: Charlotte, NC
I ended-up going back to the stock set-up... an expensive experiment to say the least!
The alignment I detailed in first thread left a great deal to be desired. I couldn't get to the track and was reduced to mid-day cloverleafs on empty perimeter roads. As I mentioned earlier - the car felt really "float-y" up front and when slightly pushed it became apparent that there was a great deal of understeer - at anything above 60mph under acceleration the front-end felt lifted - with just the slightest bit of road feel in the wheel.
Back to stock feels tight.
I was told that it could be, "high amounts of silica" in the Mich Pilot Super Sports ...but I just think the alignment i listed above was off-completely up-front and dangerous to even be fooling with...
Parting thought: I got carried away, wasted some real $ and could have wrecked my car. I'm no pro, but no novice either, I think you'd have to have massive amounts of seat time in the RS car and a fantasy-like daily drive to even start fooling w/camber and toe on a RS used primarily on the street.
Many thanks to all contributors
The alignment I detailed in first thread left a great deal to be desired. I couldn't get to the track and was reduced to mid-day cloverleafs on empty perimeter roads. As I mentioned earlier - the car felt really "float-y" up front and when slightly pushed it became apparent that there was a great deal of understeer - at anything above 60mph under acceleration the front-end felt lifted - with just the slightest bit of road feel in the wheel.
Back to stock feels tight.
I was told that it could be, "high amounts of silica" in the Mich Pilot Super Sports ...but I just think the alignment i listed above was off-completely up-front and dangerous to even be fooling with...
Parting thought: I got carried away, wasted some real $ and could have wrecked my car. I'm no pro, but no novice either, I think you'd have to have massive amounts of seat time in the RS car and a fantasy-like daily drive to even start fooling w/camber and toe on a RS used primarily on the street.
Many thanks to all contributors
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 431
From: Driver's Seat
Alignment is a rather personal thing. I run -2.6 camber F / -2.2R, 0 toe F / +0.12 R (all in degrees). Drive MPSS on the street as well (I can't be bothered with two different set of alignment settings everytime I come off a track weekend). None of the understeer you mentioned. Car is lively (read: tail prone) as it should be.
I think your feeling of "steering numbness" has to do with the added weight from the front camber. That, and like the other poster said, your MPSSs aren't meant to feel as razor sharp as the OEM MPSCs. Just look at the 10mm+ tread blocks (vs. 4-5 in the MPSCs) and you can imagine the difference.
I think your feeling of "steering numbness" has to do with the added weight from the front camber. That, and like the other poster said, your MPSSs aren't meant to feel as razor sharp as the OEM MPSCs. Just look at the 10mm+ tread blocks (vs. 4-5 in the MPSCs) and you can imagine the difference.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 5
From: Beijing, China
Alignments take a lot of R&D to suit your preference. I went through 19 alignments before reaching a good compromise for street/track. This forum is great because everyone shares info and my final settings are very close to what others have found works for them too. Basically, I run stock toe with more camber (-2.5 all around). If I track a lot in the season, I get even tire wear; if I don't, I get inside rear wear (especially on the 19's).
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,438
Likes: 1,093
From: 150 miles east of the Gulf of Mexico
PSS have a really soft sidewall and definently take some time to take a set. IMHO and YMMV I would go around -2.5 front camber and 0 toe. -2.0 rear camber .15 toe in per side.
Peter
Peter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,438
Likes: 1,093
From: 150 miles east of the Gulf of Mexico
Yes you have a touch more toe in in the rear I like a little less toe in for better rotation. I run the minimum recommended toe in in the rear as per Porsche. When I was Autox I ran less toe in for rotation but it was a little to loose on the track. Mind you that this is a 6GT3 not a 7GT3.
Peter