Lizard gone fat?
04-20-2012, 10:32 AM
#16
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A restrictor break would be nice but Porsche should have seen the writing on the wall some time ago. I find it surprising to hear that the Lizards have become complacent. I can completely understand their morale having been bruised but I hope the rumors aren't true. I certainly cannot see their strategist staying on-board if this is the case.
Just wait till we have the Viper and all its torque coming out of the corners. The futures so bright, I gotta wear shades!
Just wait till we have the Viper and all its torque coming out of the corners. The futures so bright, I gotta wear shades!
04-20-2012, 11:58 AM
#17
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Greetings:
3.3Turbo-owner/Pelican Forums
Long time admirer-GT3-Forums
If the M3s & Corvettes are hitting 500hp, how can rsr-460hp compete???
As a Porsche/flying lizard fan I find it disheartening and pissed off. Flying lizards are not "soft". I had an opportunity to speak with Jeorg B. 2yrs ago at Limerock. He had one answer for me, air-restrictors and its only going to get worse for us. Now, its getting really bad.
If this continues, why compete??? Pull the plug and watch Nascar................might get to like it.
How much did BMW & GM pay ALMS under the table?
This is straight from porsche-motorsports news.
“Rain during the two-hour free practice, resulting in a wet track, and subsequent cancellation of qualifying, did not enable our customer teams enough track time to set up the new Porsche 911 GT3 RSR for its best performance potential. The competitors who finished ahead of us at Long Beach all have a bigger restrictor – thus more horsepower – than we do. We must work with the American Le Mans Series to find a solution that gives us comparable classification to our competitors in this area,” said Hartmut Kristen, head of Porsche Motorsport.
3.3Turbo-owner/Pelican Forums
Long time admirer-GT3-Forums
If the M3s & Corvettes are hitting 500hp, how can rsr-460hp compete???
As a Porsche/flying lizard fan I find it disheartening and pissed off. Flying lizards are not "soft". I had an opportunity to speak with Jeorg B. 2yrs ago at Limerock. He had one answer for me, air-restrictors and its only going to get worse for us. Now, its getting really bad.
If this continues, why compete??? Pull the plug and watch Nascar................might get to like it.
How much did BMW & GM pay ALMS under the table?
This is straight from porsche-motorsports news.
“Rain during the two-hour free practice, resulting in a wet track, and subsequent cancellation of qualifying, did not enable our customer teams enough track time to set up the new Porsche 911 GT3 RSR for its best performance potential. The competitors who finished ahead of us at Long Beach all have a bigger restrictor – thus more horsepower – than we do. We must work with the American Le Mans Series to find a solution that gives us comparable classification to our competitors in this area,” said Hartmut Kristen, head of Porsche Motorsport.
04-20-2012, 12:16 PM
#18
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The rules for VLN have become not favorable for Porsche. So from 2012 Manthey Racing will not race at the Nurburgring 24 officially, only through customer teams. The GT3-R Hybrid has been shelved.
The rules are now favorable for the Z4 GT3 (Team Schnitzer is now in DTM) and Audi R8 LMS.
I know in ALMS the rules are BMW and GM Favorable as well, I wonder how far it will go before Porsche thinks about pulling out completely.
The rules are now favorable for the Z4 GT3 (Team Schnitzer is now in DTM) and Audi R8 LMS.
I know in ALMS the rules are BMW and GM Favorable as well, I wonder how far it will go before Porsche thinks about pulling out completely.
04-20-2012, 12:30 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I have never understood why the rules require the RSR to run with more restrictive 'restrictor' plates than others can anyone explain?
04-20-2012, 12:35 PM
#20
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Its not more that the rules require the RSR to run a smaller restrictor, its more than other teams sometimes petition a sanctioning body for a bigger restrictor because of a weight disadvantage or some other reason. Sometimes its just blatant bribery.
04-20-2012, 12:40 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I would have thought (naively it would seem) that the rules would be setup to equally handicap each entry per class, perhaps based on bhp/ton or similar measure...
if its based on whichever brand the organizers love the most, Corvette, BMW, Viper, etc ... that's just pathetic... but I guess that its not the 1st time in Porsche racing history that the rules have been stacked against them ... dissapointing indeed
if its based on whichever brand the organizers love the most, Corvette, BMW, Viper, etc ... that's just pathetic... but I guess that its not the 1st time in Porsche racing history that the rules have been stacked against them ... dissapointing indeed
04-20-2012, 12:40 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I was kidding, but that short answer isn't entirely false.
Rules against the RSR are comical when one considers how old it is. Frankly, comparing the number of waivers granted to other cars vs. the RSR is more comical than restrictor setups — especially when one looks at how "production" other GT cars are compared to the 13yo RSR. Porsche has always been very good at optimizing a car that doesn't look like much to the untrained (and trained...) eye, and it's been lucky to have very good teams (AJR, PWL, FLM, etc.) running the cars.
But, to answer your question, Larry, I suspect TRD is right—and that it took more power/speed to keep other makes on the same last lap in years past. The rest of their cars are now better, too.
pete
Rules against the RSR are comical when one considers how old it is. Frankly, comparing the number of waivers granted to other cars vs. the RSR is more comical than restrictor setups — especially when one looks at how "production" other GT cars are compared to the 13yo RSR. Porsche has always been very good at optimizing a car that doesn't look like much to the untrained (and trained...) eye, and it's been lucky to have very good teams (AJR, PWL, FLM, etc.) running the cars.
But, to answer your question, Larry, I suspect TRD is right—and that it took more power/speed to keep other makes on the same last lap in years past. The rest of their cars are now better, too.
pete
04-20-2012, 12:44 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
I would have thought (naively it would seem) that the rules would be setup to equally handicap each entry per class, perhaps based on bhp/ton or similar measure...
if its based on whichever brand the organizers love the most, Corvette, BMW, Viper, etc ... that's just pathetic... but I guess that its not the 1st time in Porsche racing history that the rules have been stacked against them ... dissapointing indeed
if its based on whichever brand the organizers love the most, Corvette, BMW, Viper, etc ... that's just pathetic... but I guess that its not the 1st time in Porsche racing history that the rules have been stacked against them ... dissapointing indeed
Can-Am's "run what you brung" glory days sure look great now... Other way to go would be to further reduce tire sizes and get rid of trays, wings, flicks, etc. (anyone seen German Touring Cars lately? Yipes!)
But then we get into safety...
pete
04-20-2012, 12:48 PM
#25
Advanced
In the end of the day, racing has to be exciting to watch. Majority of people who pay for racing (regular joes) want to see close racing. That is why NASCAR is so popular in the US and many parts of the world now.
04-20-2012, 12:50 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I was kidding, but that short answer isn't entirely false.
Rules against the RSR are comical when one considers how old it is. Frankly, comparing the number of waivers granted to other cars vs. the RSR is more comical than restrictor setups — especially when one looks at how "production" other GT cars are compared to the 13yo RSR. Porsche has always been very good at optimizing a car that doesn't look like much to the untrained (and trained...) eye, and it's been lucky to have very good teams (AJR, PWL, FLM, etc.) running the cars.
But, to answer your question, Larry, I suspect TRD is right—and that it took more power/speed to keep other makes on the same last lap in years past. The rest of their cars are now better, too.
pete
Rules against the RSR are comical when one considers how old it is. Frankly, comparing the number of waivers granted to other cars vs. the RSR is more comical than restrictor setups — especially when one looks at how "production" other GT cars are compared to the 13yo RSR. Porsche has always been very good at optimizing a car that doesn't look like much to the untrained (and trained...) eye, and it's been lucky to have very good teams (AJR, PWL, FLM, etc.) running the cars.
But, to answer your question, Larry, I suspect TRD is right—and that it took more power/speed to keep other makes on the same last lap in years past. The rest of their cars are now better, too.
pete
its BS ... and sad that the result is that it kills competition... ah well ...
04-20-2012, 12:51 PM
#27
Attachment 625666
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Last edited by zellamsee; 08-09-2013 at 05:08 PM.
04-20-2012, 12:59 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
I have great respect for the lizards, and their drivers, its a shame that in the immortal words of Sean Connery they "bring a knife to a gunfight"... through no fault of their own!
I would like to think that if they popped the restrictor off of the RSR it would kick some serious *** which could not be said of anyone else's 13yr old platform!!!
Go RSR!
I would like to think that if they popped the restrictor off of the RSR it would kick some serious *** which could not be said of anyone else's 13yr old platform!!!
Go RSR!
04-20-2012, 01:14 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=Larry Cable;9462484
its BS ... and sad that the result is that it kills competition... ah well ...[/QUOTE]
Yes, but in fairness it could be said that the Alex Job/White Lightning/Flying Lizard/etc. era of ALMS GT was a bigger competition killer. It was a total 911 show. Nothing else even came close...about as likely to see another make win as you are in GTC right now. These days, ALMS GT is pretty amazing...BMW, Corvette, Ferrari, Lotus, Viper, Porsche. GT is the best show in the ALMS; we just need to see the 911 back in the mix. I suspect we will see a concession. It's either that or the ALMS risks Porsche and/or the Lizards taking their ball and going home. I doubt we will see it come to that, but the Kristen quote in that release wasn't directed to much at the masses, methinks.
Of course, Grand-Am's GT class has gotten a lot more interesting of late...Audi R8 being a very nice addition indeed.
pete
its BS ... and sad that the result is that it kills competition... ah well ...[/QUOTE]
Yes, but in fairness it could be said that the Alex Job/White Lightning/Flying Lizard/etc. era of ALMS GT was a bigger competition killer. It was a total 911 show. Nothing else even came close...about as likely to see another make win as you are in GTC right now. These days, ALMS GT is pretty amazing...BMW, Corvette, Ferrari, Lotus, Viper, Porsche. GT is the best show in the ALMS; we just need to see the 911 back in the mix. I suspect we will see a concession. It's either that or the ALMS risks Porsche and/or the Lizards taking their ball and going home. I doubt we will see it come to that, but the Kristen quote in that release wasn't directed to much at the masses, methinks.
Of course, Grand-Am's GT class has gotten a lot more interesting of late...Audi R8 being a very nice addition indeed.
pete