Jeah, let's go to the Ring! Fun!
04-10-2012, 09:55 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Peter: Love you too. : )
Larry: that's a fine post there Sir. Glad I let it open.
And for a visual here's an old post.
https://rennlist.com/forums/8237368-post1.html
Larry: that's a fine post there Sir. Glad I let it open.
And for a visual here's an old post.
https://rennlist.com/forums/8237368-post1.html
04-10-2012, 10:28 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
For the education of my fellow RLer's that may anticipate a trip to the ring here is my list of accident hot spots (in the order you would encounter them on the track), this is based on the 11 years I have been going there, along with an ad-hoc analysis of many, many youtube video's:
I've included a video of a lap that Jim Chamber's and I did a while ago, and noted the times on that when you encounter each "hotspot"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUlOfL_X6c
I've included a video of a lap that Jim Chamber's and I did a while ago, and noted the times on that when you encounter each "hotspot"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUlOfL_X6c
- Hatzenbach I, left hander at T13/14:insufficient or late braking, early apex, ending up on the outside/exit (1:06-10)
- Hatzenbach I/II, right hander, at the bottom of the hill:early, and or lift at or after the apex (right), ending up on the outside or spin across to the inside (1:22)
- Hocheichen, right hander:early apex, where JC went off in the diesel jag... (1:53)
- flugplatz, 1st right hander:failure to brake prior to turn-in, early apex, too much speed, spin-out to the outside (2:14)
- Schwedenkreuz/Aremberg:the section between these two corners is a major hotspot:
- not cresting schwedenkreuz on the far right... (2:35-43)
- lifting on the downhill section before the left turn to aremberg causes spin outs to track left and right
- Aremberg:failure to slow sufficently before the right turn, you end up in the gravel on the outside... (2:49-54)
- Adenauer Forst:
- early apex the left at the top of the fuchsrorhe, end up on the outside (3:17)
- forgetting that the corner is a right/left 'S', you early apex onto the dirt on the outside just after the left and just before the right of the 'S' (3:27)
- Metzgesfeld:particularly in the wet, early apexing puts you on the outside in the dirt... (3:50)
- Kallenhard:particularly in the wet, early apexing the right puts you into the armco, and you can bounce off that into the inside, or if you lift after the apex... (4:06)
- Wehrseifen:right/left 'S', failure to brake enough prior to turn-in, will put you into the barriers on the outside, early apex can put you into the hillside (4:34-37)
- Briedscheid Bridge:failure to brake sufficiently prior to turn-in, or early apex will put you into the concrete bridge parapet on the outside (4:52-55)
- Ex-Muhle:c.f: "7 second ring master" on youtube, either early apex, or lift can result in bouncing off the exit armco on the left, and potentially spinning back across the track to the inside (5:01-03)
- Bergwerk:particularly in the wet when a "river" crosses diagonally l-r across the track at the exit, failure to brake prior to turn-in and/or early apex can result in hitting armco on the left exit, and bouncing across to the inside on the right (5:22-27)
- Kesselchen:
- dont put outside wheels off onto the grass at the exit of the left hander, just prior to turn-in to kesselchen, this is a high-speed section and will result in a spin into the armco on the inside (5:44)
- early apex and/or lift between turn-in and apex of kesselchen will result in a spin, particularly in the wet (5:45-47)
- Klostertal/Muttkurve:dont lift or early apex on this fast left hander, spin-out into armco on the outside (6:05-07)
- un-named blind right hander between muttkurve and Steilstrecke:early apex and/or lift thereafter will result in armco on the outside near the exit (6:16-18)
- Karussell:
- too fast in, especially in traffic, you can rear end someone, or pop out into armco on the outside (6:42)
- exiting too early causes car to 'jump' loading the outside wheels, can cause a spin (6:49)
- un-named uphill left/right prior to Hohe-Acht:
- early apex, and/or lift around the apex, will result in understeer or spin into the armco on the outside (6:59-7:01)
- two wheels off on the outside adjacent to the berm on the right, just prior to the turn-in to the left up to Hohe-Acht will cause a spin (7:06)
- Hedwigshohe:lifting and/or early apex at the right, especially in the wet, can result in a spin (7:26)
- Wipperman:
- early apex the left hand berm, then lift, results in a spin (7:28-32)
- early apex and/or lift thereafter on the right (berm) results in a spin that can end in the armco on the outside or if you are especially unlucky the inside, this is particularly true in the wet... (7:33)
- Eschbach:early apex and/or lift thereafter can result in a spin to the outside (7:42)
- Brunnchen:
- early apex and/or lift on the downhill right into results in exit to the outside, and potential spin back across the track to the inside (7:54-56)
- early apex, and/or lift, serious understeer on the exit, especially in the wet, can result in exit on the outside into the the gravel and/or armco (8:01-05)
- Eiskurve:left/right uphill, early apex, and understeer, especially in the wet can result in exit to the outside into the armco, or a spin to the inside (8:13-16)
- Pflanzgarten I/II:
- failure to brake sufficiently prior to the dip/turn-in for (I) and a subsequent lift will result in fishtailing and/or exit into the gravel on the outside (8:26-31)
- early apexing the blind left crest and a lift thereafter will result in an exit into the armco on the outside or spin to the inside (8:33-36)
- not apexing the entry to (II) track left can unsettle the car, early apex to the right uphill will point you at the exit berm left, and the grass/armco beyond (8:41, 8:45-48)
- Schwalbenschwanz:
- early apex of the left handler prior to the mini-karussell will result in exit into gravel on the outside (9:05-10)
- early apex of the mini-karussell will result in the car "jumping out" of the exit, loading the outside of the car, and potentially leading to a spin to the right armco and an unlucky bounce to back across the track (9:13-18)
- Galgenkopf:early apex at either the 1st or 2nd berm/apex will result in heading towards the outside armco (9:26-28, 9:36-38)
Can't wait till I have time to study it for a bit.
"How not to wreck at the Ring for dummies"
Thank you, thank you, thank you...
04-10-2012, 11:23 PM
#34
Drifting
04-10-2012, 11:39 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
+1 Thanks Larry! I will be picking up a BMW in June and plan to go. I will need to study your list. At first glance I thought.. OK, are there any turns that aren't dangerous?
I just plan to do it a safe pace, and say I've done it. Also planning mid week. Definitely not a weekend with the crazies....
I just plan to do it a safe pace, and say I've done it. Also planning mid week. Definitely not a weekend with the crazies....
04-11-2012, 05:41 AM
#36
For the education of my fellow RLer's that may anticipate a trip to the ring here is my list of accident hot spots (in the order you would encounter them on the track), this is based on the 11 years I have been going there, along with an ad-hoc analysis of many, many youtube video's:
I've included a video of a lap that Jim Chamber's and I did a while ago, and noted the times on that when you encounter each "hotspot"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUlOfL_X6c
I've included a video of a lap that Jim Chamber's and I did a while ago, and noted the times on that when you encounter each "hotspot"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUlOfL_X6c
- Hatzenbach I, left hander at T13/14:insufficient or late braking, early apex, ending up on the outside/exit (1:06-10)
- Hatzenbach I/II, right hander, at the bottom of the hill:early, and or lift at or after the apex (right), ending up on the outside or spin across to the inside (1:22)
- Hocheichen, right hander:early apex, where JC went off in the diesel jag... (1:53)
- flugplatz, 1st right hander:failure to brake prior to turn-in, early apex, too much speed, spin-out to the outside (2:14)
- Schwedenkreuz/Aremberg:the section between these two corners is a major hotspot:
- not cresting schwedenkreuz on the far right... (2:35-43)
- lifting on the downhill section before the left turn to aremberg causes spin outs to track left and right
- Aremberg:failure to slow sufficently before the right turn, you end up in the gravel on the outside... (2:49-54)
- Adenauer Forst:
- early apex the left at the top of the fuchsrorhe, end up on the outside (3:17)
- forgetting that the corner is a right/left 'S', you early apex onto the dirt on the outside just after the left and just before the right of the 'S' (3:27)
- Metzgesfeld:particularly in the wet, early apexing puts you on the outside in the dirt... (3:50)
- Kallenhard:particularly in the wet, early apexing the right puts you into the armco, and you can bounce off that into the inside, or if you lift after the apex... (4:06)
- Wehrseifen:right/left 'S', failure to brake enough prior to turn-in, will put you into the barriers on the outside, early apex can put you into the hillside (4:34-37)
- Briedscheid Bridge:failure to brake sufficiently prior to turn-in, or early apex will put you into the concrete bridge parapet on the outside (4:52-55)
- Ex-Muhle:c.f: "7 second ring master" on youtube, either early apex, or lift can result in bouncing off the exit armco on the left, and potentially spinning back across the track to the inside (5:01-03)
- Bergwerk:particularly in the wet when a "river" crosses diagonally l-r across the track at the exit, failure to brake prior to turn-in and/or early apex can result in hitting armco on the left exit, and bouncing across to the inside on the right (5:22-27)
- Kesselchen:
- dont put outside wheels off onto the grass at the exit of the left hander, just prior to turn-in to kesselchen, this is a high-speed section and will result in a spin into the armco on the inside (5:44)
- early apex and/or lift between turn-in and apex of kesselchen will result in a spin, particularly in the wet (5:45-47)
- Klostertal/Muttkurve:dont lift or early apex on this fast left hander, spin-out into armco on the outside (6:05-07)
- un-named blind right hander between muttkurve and Steilstrecke:early apex and/or lift thereafter will result in armco on the outside near the exit (6:16-18)
- Karussell:
- too fast in, especially in traffic, you can rear end someone, or pop out into armco on the outside (6:42)
- exiting too early causes car to 'jump' loading the outside wheels, can cause a spin (6:49)
- un-named uphill left/right prior to Hohe-Acht:
- early apex, and/or lift around the apex, will result in understeer or spin into the armco on the outside (6:59-7:01)
- two wheels off on the outside adjacent to the berm on the right, just prior to the turn-in to the left up to Hohe-Acht will cause a spin (7:06)
- Hedwigshohe:lifting and/or early apex at the right, especially in the wet, can result in a spin (7:26)
- Wipperman:
- early apex the left hand berm, then lift, results in a spin (7:28-32)
- early apex and/or lift thereafter on the right (berm) results in a spin that can end in the armco on the outside or if you are especially unlucky the inside, this is particularly true in the wet... (7:33)
- Eschbach:early apex and/or lift thereafter can result in a spin to the outside (7:42)
- Brunnchen:
- early apex and/or lift on the downhill right into results in exit to the outside, and potential spin back across the track to the inside (7:54-56)
- early apex, and/or lift, serious understeer on the exit, especially in the wet, can result in exit on the outside into the the gravel and/or armco (8:01-05)
- Eiskurve:left/right uphill, early apex, and understeer, especially in the wet can result in exit to the outside into the armco, or a spin to the inside (8:13-16)
- Pflanzgarten I/II:
- failure to brake sufficiently prior to the dip/turn-in for (I) and a subsequent lift will result in fishtailing and/or exit into the gravel on the outside (8:26-31)
- early apexing the blind left crest and a lift thereafter will result in an exit into the armco on the outside or spin to the inside (8:33-36)
- not apexing the entry to (II) track left can unsettle the car, early apex to the right uphill will point you at the exit berm left, and the grass/armco beyond (8:41, 8:45-48)
- Schwalbenschwanz:
- early apex of the left handler prior to the mini-karussell will result in exit into gravel on the outside (9:05-10)
- early apex of the mini-karussell will result in the car "jumping out" of the exit, loading the outside of the car, and potentially leading to a spin to the right armco and an unlucky bounce to back across the track (9:13-18)
- Galgenkopf:early apex at either the 1st or 2nd berm/apex will result in heading towards the outside armco (9:26-28, 9:36-38)
04-11-2012, 01:28 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
+1 Thanks Larry! I will be picking up a BMW in June and plan to go. I will need to study your list. At first glance I thought.. OK, are there any turns that aren't dangerous?
I just plan to do it a safe pace, and say I've done it. Also planning mid week. Definitely not a weekend with the crazies....
I just plan to do it a safe pace, and say I've done it. Also planning mid week. Definitely not a weekend with the crazies....
basically what it tells me is that (stating the obvious) many people enter corners too fast without knowledge of the lines and typically either lift and spin, or understeer off... and there are few places at the ring that you can do this safely.
If you haven't been there before, download the "autosport" line guide, learn it, and watch some full lap videos until you have memorized a line ... it will make for a much more enjoyable ring experience!
have fun in June ... I've done the BMW (& Porsche) Euro Del thing before, its a blast ...