Michelin PSS .1 GT3 SWall FLEX
02-19-2012, 09:32 PM
#31
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They do grip and thats great, but the *** feels like if the sway bar was missing. It kills your confidence, but your adrenaline pulls you thru it.
Last edited by speedyralph; 02-19-2012 at 09:52 PM.
02-19-2012, 10:36 PM
#33
Please, please, please listen to me - please.
It is impossible to drive a GT3 and get honest feedback with what you have - impossible.
Do not judge the car as it is now.
Old worn front tires of one brand, new rears of a different brand - this is the absolute worst setup to possibly get reliable feedback - the 100% worst.
If you had 4 new tire of the same type, scuffed properly, at optimal temps then and only then can you comment.
There isn't a single GT3 owner that I have ever met who actually tracks their car that I could possibly imagine that would not agree with me as we all have learned that the car needs to be in balance to perform well - if one of the ends is not acting well the car just does not work - it is only when the car is in balance car you drive it very aggressively and be rewarded.
Think about what you have done - beat to **** front tires and oozing release agent full tread rears - I'm surprised you don't kill your self - the only reason you didn't is because the car would have felt like total and complete fvcking crap so you just couldn't do anything and you now think the car sucks.
Back to basics
- matching tires of the same age and tread depth similarly heat cycled
- an alignment that you can tell us about
It should tell you something if a car is pushing with 'better' tires on the front than on the rear. The very fact that it was pushing with these soft sidewall PSS rear tires as you said that apparently weren't showing any wear is basic proof that the PSS rears were vastly outperforming your dead fronts - and yet your comments are about the PSS and not the way past dead OE fronts.
No one is going to say that a brand new set of OE Cups aren't better on the track than PSS tires - but your current setup would rank 0 out of 10 in terms of optimal - and just to highlight the point, your 0 is a long way even from what I would say is 1 out of 10.
I won't even address the fact that you 'lowered' the car - what are the exact measurements, what did you do to the rake, etc, etc, etc.
A GT3, as I think you just learned from a bad setup, doesn't work. A well setup GT3 is magical.
It is impossible to drive a GT3 and get honest feedback with what you have - impossible.
Do not judge the car as it is now.
Old worn front tires of one brand, new rears of a different brand - this is the absolute worst setup to possibly get reliable feedback - the 100% worst.
If you had 4 new tire of the same type, scuffed properly, at optimal temps then and only then can you comment.
There isn't a single GT3 owner that I have ever met who actually tracks their car that I could possibly imagine that would not agree with me as we all have learned that the car needs to be in balance to perform well - if one of the ends is not acting well the car just does not work - it is only when the car is in balance car you drive it very aggressively and be rewarded.
Think about what you have done - beat to **** front tires and oozing release agent full tread rears - I'm surprised you don't kill your self - the only reason you didn't is because the car would have felt like total and complete fvcking crap so you just couldn't do anything and you now think the car sucks.
Back to basics
- matching tires of the same age and tread depth similarly heat cycled
- an alignment that you can tell us about
It should tell you something if a car is pushing with 'better' tires on the front than on the rear. The very fact that it was pushing with these soft sidewall PSS rear tires as you said that apparently weren't showing any wear is basic proof that the PSS rears were vastly outperforming your dead fronts - and yet your comments are about the PSS and not the way past dead OE fronts.
No one is going to say that a brand new set of OE Cups aren't better on the track than PSS tires - but your current setup would rank 0 out of 10 in terms of optimal - and just to highlight the point, your 0 is a long way even from what I would say is 1 out of 10.
I won't even address the fact that you 'lowered' the car - what are the exact measurements, what did you do to the rake, etc, etc, etc.
A GT3, as I think you just learned from a bad setup, doesn't work. A well setup GT3 is magical.
02-19-2012, 11:04 PM
#34
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Please, please, please listen to me - please.
It is impossible to drive a GT3 and get honest feedback with what you have - impossible.
Do not judge the car as it is now.
Old worn front tires of one brand, new rears of a different brand - this is the absolute worst setup to possibly get reliable feedback - the 100% worst.
If you had 4 new tire of the same type, scuffed properly, at optimal temps then and only then can you comment.
There isn't a single GT3 owner that I have ever met who actually tracks their car that I could possibly imagine that would not agree with me as we all have learned that the car needs to be in balance to perform well - if one of the ends is not acting well the car just does not work - it is only when the car is in balance car you drive it very aggressively and be rewarded.
Think about what you have done - beat to **** front tires and oozing release agent full tread rears - I'm surprised you don't kill your self - the only reason you didn't is because the car would have felt like total and complete fvcking crap so you just couldn't do anything and you now think the car sucks.
Back to basics
- matching tires of the same age and tread depth similarly heat cycled
- an alignment that you can tell us about
It should tell you something if a car is pushing with 'better' tires on the front than on the rear. The very fact that it was pushing with these soft sidewall PSS rear tires as you said that apparently weren't showing any wear is basic proof that the PSS rears were vastly outperforming your dead fronts - and yet your comments are about the PSS and not the way past dead OE fronts.
No one is going to say that a brand new set of OE Cups aren't better on the track than PSS tires - but your current setup would rank 0 out of 10 in terms of optimal - and just to highlight the point, your 0 is a long way even from what I would say is 1 out of 10.
I won't even address the fact that you 'lowered' the car - what are the exact measurements, what did you do to the rake, etc, etc, etc.
A GT3, as I think you just learned from a bad setup, doesn't work. A well setup GT3 is magical.
It is impossible to drive a GT3 and get honest feedback with what you have - impossible.
Do not judge the car as it is now.
Old worn front tires of one brand, new rears of a different brand - this is the absolute worst setup to possibly get reliable feedback - the 100% worst.
If you had 4 new tire of the same type, scuffed properly, at optimal temps then and only then can you comment.
There isn't a single GT3 owner that I have ever met who actually tracks their car that I could possibly imagine that would not agree with me as we all have learned that the car needs to be in balance to perform well - if one of the ends is not acting well the car just does not work - it is only when the car is in balance car you drive it very aggressively and be rewarded.
Think about what you have done - beat to **** front tires and oozing release agent full tread rears - I'm surprised you don't kill your self - the only reason you didn't is because the car would have felt like total and complete fvcking crap so you just couldn't do anything and you now think the car sucks.
Back to basics
- matching tires of the same age and tread depth similarly heat cycled
- an alignment that you can tell us about
It should tell you something if a car is pushing with 'better' tires on the front than on the rear. The very fact that it was pushing with these soft sidewall PSS rear tires as you said that apparently weren't showing any wear is basic proof that the PSS rears were vastly outperforming your dead fronts - and yet your comments are about the PSS and not the way past dead OE fronts.
No one is going to say that a brand new set of OE Cups aren't better on the track than PSS tires - but your current setup would rank 0 out of 10 in terms of optimal - and just to highlight the point, your 0 is a long way even from what I would say is 1 out of 10.
I won't even address the fact that you 'lowered' the car - what are the exact measurements, what did you do to the rake, etc, etc, etc.
A GT3, as I think you just learned from a bad setup, doesn't work. A well setup GT3 is magical.
I will correct all this with a new set of tires and chassis setup, balanced, etc.. at Orbit Racing this week.
But, please let me say this, when the car had the ride height that I bought the car with, it handled great with the cup tires in the street, although it had waaay too much air in them. The second I pulled off the tire shop with the rear pss's at 43psi, the rear end started dancing all over the highway over 60mph.
When I got to point B, I measured my other previously tracked purpose GT3's shocks with points of references on the strut tower and copied that setup along with both sway bar positions to this current car. I then drove home, about 10 mls with several roads I know pretty well and the dancing minimized by 40%. I then posted this thread and the next morning I adjusted the psi to 29/31. I drove off in the morning and the dancing minimized again another 30%, but it never went away.
As the rears lid up at the track today, the wobbling got worse and worse.
I got your point, very clearly and I appreciate all the information. I'm just typing my wack *** feedback. I'm cuban and some times we do **** very rustic, as you can tell.
This is what I managed to do today:
Last edited by speedyralph; 02-19-2012 at 11:53 PM.
02-20-2012, 10:30 AM
#35
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Don't know about tires but you are way way early turning in on turns 6 and 8. Not 100% comparison but I was on PSS @ CMP Sunday in the cold and wet and they were awesome on a 3600# Boss 302.
Peter
Peter
02-20-2012, 10:36 AM
#36
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That isn't the line around Homestead. Hopefully, If I get my car setup up properly this week, I'll post new vids of the proper way around Homestead.
Ralph
02-20-2012, 11:00 AM
#37
Ralph,
Hang in there - if the car is pushing like crazy then it is a really frustrating to drive - although easier than if your rear is coming around every corner - though this can at least be fun if you allow it to be.
Just want to say that I have lived through, in different ways, everything you are now going through when I first got the car 4+ years ago - an as delivered OE car the ploughed like a pig, changing alignments to fix that + GT2 rear sway bar to eventually get the car where 'I' like it. I did live the tires shot at one end to highlight what you are going through - my R888 rears lost grip and the car went crazy - from perfectly neutral as I like it to massive oversteer on every corner. A top pro was there that day and happened to be driving the car as the tires started to go bad and he said the car was crazy loose - and that he could be so much faster if I softend up the rear, dropped the rear ride height for more grip, stiffened front bar slightly so I could enter corners with more aggressive trail braking, etc, etc, etc. I put a new set of Hoosier R6s on for the next track day and same pro was there - he said the car was Perfect. Lessened learned - you need 4 new tires to set up a car or you will be chasing your tail.
Paul
Hang in there - if the car is pushing like crazy then it is a really frustrating to drive - although easier than if your rear is coming around every corner - though this can at least be fun if you allow it to be.
Just want to say that I have lived through, in different ways, everything you are now going through when I first got the car 4+ years ago - an as delivered OE car the ploughed like a pig, changing alignments to fix that + GT2 rear sway bar to eventually get the car where 'I' like it. I did live the tires shot at one end to highlight what you are going through - my R888 rears lost grip and the car went crazy - from perfectly neutral as I like it to massive oversteer on every corner. A top pro was there that day and happened to be driving the car as the tires started to go bad and he said the car was crazy loose - and that he could be so much faster if I softend up the rear, dropped the rear ride height for more grip, stiffened front bar slightly so I could enter corners with more aggressive trail braking, etc, etc, etc. I put a new set of Hoosier R6s on for the next track day and same pro was there - he said the car was Perfect. Lessened learned - you need 4 new tires to set up a car or you will be chasing your tail.
Paul
02-20-2012, 11:54 AM
#38
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02-20-2012, 05:06 PM
#39
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Hello guys, my friend donated this tires to me. Their cracked, but do you guys think that after I scuff them on the street they'll be good for the track?
If yes, I could put back my rear old cups (inverted) from post #11 and head to the track!
The last two pictures are as cracked as the first two...
If yes, I could put back my rear old cups (inverted) from post #11 and head to the track!
The last two pictures are as cracked as the first two...
02-20-2012, 05:17 PM
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02-20-2012, 05:29 PM
#42
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02-20-2012, 05:40 PM
#43
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Hello guys, my friend donated this tires to me. Their cracked, but do you guys think that after I scuff them on the street they'll be good for the track?
If yes, I could put back my rear old cups (inverted) from post #11 and head to the track!
The last two pictures are as cracked as the first two...
If yes, I could put back my rear old cups (inverted) from post #11 and head to the track!
The last two pictures are as cracked as the first two...
This is a bit like a similar question; you get on a plane, sit in a window seat, look out the window and see cracks on the skin of the wings ... cosmetic or structural, are we flying today?
02-20-2012, 06:07 PM
#44
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Great point, the cracks look cosmetic.
let me ask you this, since you and your $xx,xxx GT3 are connected to planet earth by the contact patches of these tyres ... are you confident that these cracks are "cosmetic" and not "structural"???
This is a bit like a similar question; you get on a plane, sit in a window seat, look out the window and see cracks on the skin of the wings ... cosmetic or structural, are we flying today?
This is a bit like a similar question; you get on a plane, sit in a window seat, look out the window and see cracks on the skin of the wings ... cosmetic or structural, are we flying today?
02-20-2012, 06:25 PM
#45
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