Insurance claim at the track
#16
Doesn't look good ...
5.. .bodilyinjuryor.propertydamage.resultng.from,.or.sustaned.durng.prac- tce.or.preparaton.for:.
. a.. .any.pre-arranged.or.organzed.racng,.stuntng,.speed,.or.demolton.con- test.or.actvty;.or
. b.. .any.drvng.actvty.conducted.on.a.permanent.or.temporary.racetrack.or. racecourse;
5.. .bodilyinjuryor.propertydamage.resultng.from,.or.sustaned.durng.prac- tce.or.preparaton.for:.
. a.. .any.pre-arranged.or.organzed.racng,.stuntng,.speed,.or.demolton.con- test.or.actvty;.or
. b.. .any.drvng.actvty.conducted.on.a.permanent.or.temporary.racetrack.or. racecourse;
#17
Eddie,
Listen to jmachul. BTW - Statefarm and Liberty Mutual have policies that cover closed circuits as long as insured does not participate in any racing or timed sessions. I had Progressive and my policy clearly stated that it did not cover any off road or closed circuit use. Regardless, your friend needs to review his policy as it may be different than mine.
Listen to jmachul. BTW - Statefarm and Liberty Mutual have policies that cover closed circuits as long as insured does not participate in any racing or timed sessions. I had Progressive and my policy clearly stated that it did not cover any off road or closed circuit use. Regardless, your friend needs to review his policy as it may be different than mine.
#19
Tks Juan and Peter,
@ Juan - Will text you tomorrow and try to reach John, as my friend need some light. He bought the car a week ago, and trust me, it was one of the nicest I have ever seen. Was ....
@ Juan - Will text you tomorrow and try to reach John, as my friend need some light. He bought the car a week ago, and trust me, it was one of the nicest I have ever seen. Was ....
#21
tks Lewis....
You're right, but this is the kind of thing that could happen to anyone of us. He was very very easy on the car, but I can tell you that I was driving at the same time, on the first session, and I had the impression that my tires were flat, big sweepers, no grip at all, my car was pushing on the turn in and the minimum effort to rotate, would lead to a drift, really really funky combo of a new car, low grip tires, 100+ degrees and not so experienced but cautious driver. Very unfortunate, and on top of it, low life's laughing and taking pictures, this whole situation put me on the edge yesterday.
You're right, but this is the kind of thing that could happen to anyone of us. He was very very easy on the car, but I can tell you that I was driving at the same time, on the first session, and I had the impression that my tires were flat, big sweepers, no grip at all, my car was pushing on the turn in and the minimum effort to rotate, would lead to a drift, really really funky combo of a new car, low grip tires, 100+ degrees and not so experienced but cautious driver. Very unfortunate, and on top of it, low life's laughing and taking pictures, this whole situation put me on the edge yesterday.
#22
M3EvoBr, really sorry to read about your friend... I hope he moves on from this and puts it down to a life experience. You are correct, its a risk we all take and things don't always go according to plan. Here we don't even get the option of insurance, any track work is at risk and I feel his pain because its always in the corner of my mind...
As for the clowns who found it funny, what comes around, goes around and one day they will get theirs... U guys should waste your energy on them...
As for the clowns who found it funny, what comes around, goes around and one day they will get theirs... U guys should waste your energy on them...
#23
WTF is this? However you disclaim yourself and whatever you say, the spirit of your post is evident--that you are outlining a course of action that violates the spirit of the OP's friend's insurance coverage. I don't even see how this can be kosher with Rennlist's policy.
I'm not on some moral high horse--if I had the misfortune of the OP's friend I of course would be tempted to finangle something out of the insurance company. But that doesn't make it right does it. I certainly wouldn't go posting on a public forum seeking ways to scheme my insurance company. And the very last thing I'd do is to counsel (or at least indicate ways for) somebody else to defraud.
Why am I so worked up? Fraudulent claims raise the premiums for everyone. I know from first hand experience that certain makes are nigh on impossible to insure in my locale (e.g. Lambo Gallardo SL's) because a few bad apples have spoiled the lot for the other regular owners. My own insurance premium there has doubled over the past few years because of outrageous claim statistics for the brand/model. That, despite my own clean history for the past as many years.
Admins: I do not see how this kind of behavior can/should be condoned. Threads like this give RL a bad name.
I'm not on some moral high horse--if I had the misfortune of the OP's friend I of course would be tempted to finangle something out of the insurance company. But that doesn't make it right does it. I certainly wouldn't go posting on a public forum seeking ways to scheme my insurance company. And the very last thing I'd do is to counsel (or at least indicate ways for) somebody else to defraud.
Why am I so worked up? Fraudulent claims raise the premiums for everyone. I know from first hand experience that certain makes are nigh on impossible to insure in my locale (e.g. Lambo Gallardo SL's) because a few bad apples have spoiled the lot for the other regular owners. My own insurance premium there has doubled over the past few years because of outrageous claim statistics for the brand/model. That, despite my own clean history for the past as many years.
Admins: I do not see how this kind of behavior can/should be condoned. Threads like this give RL a bad name.
Tell your friend to at least have the car towed off-site and away from the track, off the record, preferably somewhere remote. Then have it towed again to the nearest dealer using AAA or Porsche roadside assist, on the record. En route, phone-in a police report of the accident and claim that it happened while messing around at some back country roads. Yes, it's dishonest but you don't want to screw around with regular street insurance as most of them will deny coverage. Your friend needs to check the exclusions section on their policy, and sometimes even when not documented under exclusions, most carriers will still go out of their way towards denying covering any incident on a race track whether it's a timed event or not.
I know a few who have done this and everything has worked out. In the future, it's best to get track insurance unless you have deep enough pockets to pay for your own track misfortunes as they come.
EDIT: To clarify, I am not suggesting that this is the right course of action to take. It's merely an option depending on your own morals, and how far one would go to avoid a big monetary hit. Like I said in my last sentence, get track insurance or dig deep in your pockets (gotta pay to play) in the future. I just mentioned it as an idea because I've seen the above-mentioned practice done often at almost every track incident I've witnessed where the owner was aware that their insurance would not cover it. While everyone is taking the high road and doing the right thing in this forum thread, I've observed much different actions taken at the tracks time and time again, especially when fellow participants crowd around and in the heat of being "sh!+ outta luck", it often became suggested and even encouraged (sometimes unanimously) by the most unlikely of people (instructors, fellow drivers, corner workers, and other track personnel) to commit such insurance fraud as described above. I haven't done this. And fortunately, I haven't had to. (knocks on wood) Nor will I ever do it should something ever happen, which is why I have track insurance through lockton, despite USAA already confirming in writing with reference to the exclusions that I am covered as long as it is a driving school and a not a competitive timed event.
I know a few who have done this and everything has worked out. In the future, it's best to get track insurance unless you have deep enough pockets to pay for your own track misfortunes as they come.
EDIT: To clarify, I am not suggesting that this is the right course of action to take. It's merely an option depending on your own morals, and how far one would go to avoid a big monetary hit. Like I said in my last sentence, get track insurance or dig deep in your pockets (gotta pay to play) in the future. I just mentioned it as an idea because I've seen the above-mentioned practice done often at almost every track incident I've witnessed where the owner was aware that their insurance would not cover it. While everyone is taking the high road and doing the right thing in this forum thread, I've observed much different actions taken at the tracks time and time again, especially when fellow participants crowd around and in the heat of being "sh!+ outta luck", it often became suggested and even encouraged (sometimes unanimously) by the most unlikely of people (instructors, fellow drivers, corner workers, and other track personnel) to commit such insurance fraud as described above. I haven't done this. And fortunately, I haven't had to. (knocks on wood) Nor will I ever do it should something ever happen, which is why I have track insurance through lockton, despite USAA already confirming in writing with reference to the exclusions that I am covered as long as it is a driving school and a not a competitive timed event.
#24
Actually, you are on some moral high horse. The OP simply created this thread and invited "experience with regular insurance and track claims" so I obliged with what I often see practiced at almost every single incident I've witnessed at local Audi and BMW club events. I never said this was the right thing to do either - hell, I'm totally with you about how fraudulent claims ruin it for everyone. Like I said, I've always paid extra for track insurance in addition to regular street insurance that already covers DE events, so this is clearly not my way of doing things. I'm just posting my own observed experiences of the many unfortunate incidents similar to the OP's friend. You need to relax and drop this whole personal attack. I had no idea that rennlist was the home of the pure, untarnished, and the most flawless of morals, as you're suggesting, that spouting off less-than-saintly ideas is punishable to the extreme. You're treating it like I just walked into a kindergarten class and started blurting expletives to permanently corrupt children's minds. Everyone here is smart enough to make their own decisions and I wasn't pushing this on anyone as the right thing to do. The OP opened this thread asking for experiences, NOT for an ethical pissing contest, so I shared what I've seen other people have done with much success. That is all.
#25
nugget,
Clever and funny reply. I'm sorry that this has upset you and others. I sincerely apologize. Just like that, I'm the bad guy and it seems can do nothing to make it right. The mocking is well-deserved. Carry on...
Clever and funny reply. I'm sorry that this has upset you and others. I sincerely apologize. Just like that, I'm the bad guy and it seems can do nothing to make it right. The mocking is well-deserved. Carry on...
#26
I know someone that did this.
Totally wrecked their car at an autocross----hard to believe, because #1 autocross is normally so safe, and #2 this guy was running faster than everybody, until he wrecked his STI.
Well I heard through the grapevine that he did one of these take it to a wet road somewhere else, and say that's how it wrecked. I think he got paid for the car.
But the problem was that to my surprise that he was in the country illegally for like 15 years. His kids were born here, and he had a job and a place---like everyone else. Must have overstayed a visa or something like that.
Well I guess that his Social Security number drew a little extra scrutiny when he was paid off from the car. He got deported and now lives back in Peru. He was a great guy. Maybe if he didn't do that he would still be in the U.S.
Totally wrecked their car at an autocross----hard to believe, because #1 autocross is normally so safe, and #2 this guy was running faster than everybody, until he wrecked his STI.
Well I heard through the grapevine that he did one of these take it to a wet road somewhere else, and say that's how it wrecked. I think he got paid for the car.
But the problem was that to my surprise that he was in the country illegally for like 15 years. His kids were born here, and he had a job and a place---like everyone else. Must have overstayed a visa or something like that.
Well I guess that his Social Security number drew a little extra scrutiny when he was paid off from the car. He got deported and now lives back in Peru. He was a great guy. Maybe if he didn't do that he would still be in the U.S.
#27
If has a good relationship with his agent(always a good idea)...he should call and ask what is covered in the policy.
As far as Masmole's suggestion...this is a discussion forum and he floated out an idea.
As far as Masmole's suggestion...this is a discussion forum and he floated out an idea.
#28
Hire an Attorney, and let him/her handle the claim. But, fully disclose what happened, and DO NOT commit insurance fraud. If convicted, your best outcome will be a very large fine, and your worst outcome will be jail time.
#29
I know each policy is different, your friend should read over his with a fine tooth comb. If it's unclear, I'd get legal involved.
I've seen so many accidents on track where the owner has plates on the car. Stupid asses take photos and post them all over the internet. I hope this gets resolved.
I've seen so many accidents on track where the owner has plates on the car. Stupid asses take photos and post them all over the internet. I hope this gets resolved.