Smartycam reviews
06-10-2011, 10:34 AM
#16
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Just a few words about why AiM does not want to enable SmartyCam to log any data other than GPS and Accelerometer.
AiM has a large product line, everything from stop watches to complete loggers and displays. With a large line they have to be careful with eliminating a product with another product. So if SmartyCam was enabled to log all data it receives, it has the potential to eliminate a stand alone logger. Now that sounds great on the surface to the consumer. Get 2 for the price of 1 sort of thing. The problem is that as a logger SmartyCam would be some what limited in it's ability to log. Expecially in the area of external sensors. So in the begining all is great but when you want to expand you are stuck.
Also, there is an economic factor, AiM is in the business to make money from the products we sell and we focus on very specific markets. HPDE is a newer market for us and we have something for all of you coming, I hope, within the next few weeks. Solo DL
Now, so all of you know I have lobied AiM to allow SmartyCam to log data coming from the ECU via the Bridge. There are arguments for and against.
So what is the best thing to do? Don't buy and ECU Bridge, wait for the Solo DL and pair that with your SmartyCam. This will give you a GPS based lap timer, Can Bus data logger and an in car display. Including predictive lap timing.
Analyzing data is great as a tool to improve lap times. But having a display set to predictive in the car allows you to take the data you have just analyzed and apply it.
Ask Seth Thomas if he uses predictive lap timing on his dash in his GS car.
And on the Contour, I think it is a great product especially with GPS!! But as stated above no ECU connectivity and I don't expect they would enter that market.
Best,
Jordan Dalessio
AiM Sports
AiM has a large product line, everything from stop watches to complete loggers and displays. With a large line they have to be careful with eliminating a product with another product. So if SmartyCam was enabled to log all data it receives, it has the potential to eliminate a stand alone logger. Now that sounds great on the surface to the consumer. Get 2 for the price of 1 sort of thing. The problem is that as a logger SmartyCam would be some what limited in it's ability to log. Expecially in the area of external sensors. So in the begining all is great but when you want to expand you are stuck.
Also, there is an economic factor, AiM is in the business to make money from the products we sell and we focus on very specific markets. HPDE is a newer market for us and we have something for all of you coming, I hope, within the next few weeks. Solo DL
Now, so all of you know I have lobied AiM to allow SmartyCam to log data coming from the ECU via the Bridge. There are arguments for and against.
So what is the best thing to do? Don't buy and ECU Bridge, wait for the Solo DL and pair that with your SmartyCam. This will give you a GPS based lap timer, Can Bus data logger and an in car display. Including predictive lap timing.
Analyzing data is great as a tool to improve lap times. But having a display set to predictive in the car allows you to take the data you have just analyzed and apply it.
Ask Seth Thomas if he uses predictive lap timing on his dash in his GS car.
And on the Contour, I think it is a great product especially with GPS!! But as stated above no ECU connectivity and I don't expect they would enter that market.
Best,
Jordan Dalessio
AiM Sports
06-10-2011, 10:56 AM
#17
Just a few words about why AiM does not want to enable SmartyCam to log any data other than GPS and Accelerometer.
AiM has a large product line, everything from stop watches to complete loggers and displays. With a large line they have to be careful with eliminating a product with another product. So if SmartyCam was enabled to log all data it receives, it has the potential to eliminate a stand alone logger. Now that sounds great on the surface to the consumer. Get 2 for the price of 1 sort of thing. The problem is that as a logger SmartyCam would be some what limited in it's ability to log. Expecially in the area of external sensors. So in the begining all is great but when you want to expand you are stuck.
Also, there is an economic factor, AiM is in the business to make money from the products we sell and we focus on very specific markets. HPDE is a newer market for us and we have something for all of you coming, I hope, within the next few weeks. Solo DL
Now, so all of you know I have lobied AiM to allow SmartyCam to log data coming from the ECU via the Bridge. There are arguments for and against.
So what is the best thing to do? Don't buy and ECU Bridge, wait for the Solo DL and pair that with your SmartyCam. This will give you a GPS based lap timer, Can Bus data logger and an in car display. Including predictive lap timing.
Analyzing data is great as a tool to improve lap times. But having a display set to predictive in the car allows you to take the data you have just analyzed and apply it.
Ask Seth Thomas if he uses predictive lap timing on his dash in his GS car.
And on the Contour, I think it is a great product especially with GPS!! But as stated above no ECU connectivity and I don't expect they would enter that market.
Best,
Jordan Dalessio
AiM Sports
AiM has a large product line, everything from stop watches to complete loggers and displays. With a large line they have to be careful with eliminating a product with another product. So if SmartyCam was enabled to log all data it receives, it has the potential to eliminate a stand alone logger. Now that sounds great on the surface to the consumer. Get 2 for the price of 1 sort of thing. The problem is that as a logger SmartyCam would be some what limited in it's ability to log. Expecially in the area of external sensors. So in the begining all is great but when you want to expand you are stuck.
Also, there is an economic factor, AiM is in the business to make money from the products we sell and we focus on very specific markets. HPDE is a newer market for us and we have something for all of you coming, I hope, within the next few weeks. Solo DL
Now, so all of you know I have lobied AiM to allow SmartyCam to log data coming from the ECU via the Bridge. There are arguments for and against.
So what is the best thing to do? Don't buy and ECU Bridge, wait for the Solo DL and pair that with your SmartyCam. This will give you a GPS based lap timer, Can Bus data logger and an in car display. Including predictive lap timing.
Analyzing data is great as a tool to improve lap times. But having a display set to predictive in the car allows you to take the data you have just analyzed and apply it.
Ask Seth Thomas if he uses predictive lap timing on his dash in his GS car.
And on the Contour, I think it is a great product especially with GPS!! But as stated above no ECU connectivity and I don't expect they would enter that market.
Best,
Jordan Dalessio
AiM Sports
06-10-2011, 11:11 AM
#18
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No, we showed the mock up at PRI in December.
Don't get me wrong, AiM has been slow on releasing some products.
It can be difficult to manage our existing line and customers and introduce new products. We have the largest ECU databse in the world. We get requests for new features on our exixting products every day, new ECU protocols, new sensors, new software functionality and a host of other new capabilities. This all takes time and can be very complicated. We do not have infinite resources. I wish we did.
Like I said, HPDE is sort of new for us as a focused market. We are producing the Solo for this reason. Many HPDE guys/girls have found AiM on their own so now we are answering the demand with a product that will serve this market. We did not actively persue this market, now it looks like we are.
Our largest market is Karts ( Mychron line) and Automotive racing ( MXL and EVO line ). We support many sanctioning bodies and their compectitors free of charge, unlike all the other data companies. We are know for our customer support and service, regardless of what product it is. And we are available pretty much 24/7. I have been on the phone with customers at 2am to answer questions and help solve problems.
Now we have to work with this new market. If you want to go faster, data is the way to go, but not having a display in the car is not the best way to go especially if you want to see if you are improving in real time.
Don't get me wrong, AiM has been slow on releasing some products.
It can be difficult to manage our existing line and customers and introduce new products. We have the largest ECU databse in the world. We get requests for new features on our exixting products every day, new ECU protocols, new sensors, new software functionality and a host of other new capabilities. This all takes time and can be very complicated. We do not have infinite resources. I wish we did.
Like I said, HPDE is sort of new for us as a focused market. We are producing the Solo for this reason. Many HPDE guys/girls have found AiM on their own so now we are answering the demand with a product that will serve this market. We did not actively persue this market, now it looks like we are.
Our largest market is Karts ( Mychron line) and Automotive racing ( MXL and EVO line ). We support many sanctioning bodies and their compectitors free of charge, unlike all the other data companies. We are know for our customer support and service, regardless of what product it is. And we are available pretty much 24/7. I have been on the phone with customers at 2am to answer questions and help solve problems.
Now we have to work with this new market. If you want to go faster, data is the way to go, but not having a display in the car is not the best way to go especially if you want to see if you are improving in real time.
06-10-2011, 11:49 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
AiM has a large product line, everything from stop watches to complete loggers and displays. With a large line they have to be careful with eliminating a product with another product. So if SmartyCam was enabled to log all data it receives, it has the potential to eliminate a stand alone logger. Now that sounds great on the surface to the consumer. Get 2 for the price of 1 sort of thing. The problem is that as a logger SmartyCam would be some what limited in it's ability to log. Expecially in the area of external sensors. So in the begining all is great but when you want to expand you are stuck.
Had Apple been of the same mentality, nobody would be using an iPhone today and everybody'd still be on click-wheel ipods with flintstone handsets duct-taped to their backs...
The Smartycam has processing power in orders of magnitude beyond AIM's other products, loggers included. Factually the only thing missing is external connectivity as you mentioned and software to make use of that processor. I'm not convinced that can't be solved with a channel expander of sorts plus a software update.
I eagerly await the product you mentioned. I've invested enough in the AIM setup to want it to work for me.
06-10-2011, 12:09 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Jordan, I sent you longer email regarding my point of view. I really do not have any desire to mount anything else in my car. Smartycam 'all in one' concept was great. Attempt to make a modular system out of it was a marketing mistake IMHO.
Separate solo logger with a display for laps time shown is nice idea for some, but, it will be a PITA to find a good spot in a _stock_ _street_ car to mount it so it could be visible while driving and removable and not obstruct anything with extra cords.
Personally, I am much less concerned to see my lap times in real time than to be able to see what I did wrong afterwards. I do not want modular system, all I want is one single camera box with some wires, and if it could be wireless it would be even better.
what CRex says is also true. Kinda same story that got Android phones to take huge segment off Iphone. Happens all the time...
Separate solo logger with a display for laps time shown is nice idea for some, but, it will be a PITA to find a good spot in a _stock_ _street_ car to mount it so it could be visible while driving and removable and not obstruct anything with extra cords.
Personally, I am much less concerned to see my lap times in real time than to be able to see what I did wrong afterwards. I do not want modular system, all I want is one single camera box with some wires, and if it could be wireless it would be even better.
what CRex says is also true. Kinda same story that got Android phones to take huge segment off Iphone. Happens all the time...
06-10-2011, 12:28 PM
#21
Pointing out I have the full Smartycam set-up for sale as of yesterday: https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...acket-kit.html
I have two Racekeeper set-ups and I just am not using my Smartycam. It worked great for me.
I have two Racekeeper set-ups and I just am not using my Smartycam. It worked great for me.
06-10-2011, 12:29 PM
#22
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I hear ya. It's not a handicapped product issue. It's a timing issue in relationship to technology advances and predicting what the market needs and wants. SmartyCam started out as an add on to our current line of loggers. Then we introduced the ECU Bridge and with it's introduction a new set of questions came up. Many of which are being addressed in this thread.
To be candid, I think our line is a bit too large and there is some overlap. But if we look at our customer base they seem to be happy with what we are producing. Do our competitors offer some features that we don't? Some do. Do we offer features that they don't? Sometimes.
We have the Apple argument all the time! If only were were Apple.
The processing power in the SmaryCam can not be compared to our other products for the simple fact that SmartyCam is dealing with much more information than a logger is. Just look at the size of a video file as compared to a data file. 1/2 hour of video is hundreds of times larger than a 1/2 hour of logged data.
I wish we could satisfy every customer with our products. Unfortunately we can't. And we understand that. All we can do, all I can do is keep you all informed and recommend the products that fit your needs.
One of my roles at AiM is to be "the customer". This is why I have lobbied for the functionality some of you are requesting. But sometimes my view is too narrow in relationship to our product line.
I would love to see a wireless all in one box that does video, logs data and makes french toast on the way to the track. Unfortunately this does not exist yet...
On the idea of it being bad business; A little background about AiM. We have been in business since 1976 as a micro processor company. In the 80's Fiat contacted aim about producing a logger for their dyno's. This is when AiM started to produce data loggers. They started off small and thus grew into the largest data company with about 100,000 systems sold. That is a large number for a so called niche market. AiM has done pretty well over the years. Can we do better? You bet. And we spend a lot of time talking and thinking about what the next move is going to be. The Solo DL looks to be exactly what the HPDE market needs. Above and beyond the SmartyCam. Video is a great tool to "see" what happened. But the Solo DL is a better tool to see "what" is going to happen. These 2 products paired would be the best of both worlds.
Our prices, bang for the buck, are the best in the business. At least I think they are.
As always, I am here to answer any questions you may have. If I can help in any way just let me know. Also, know that you may need to look elsewhere for products that fit your specific needs. I am not saying to buy a competitors product, but sometimes our competitors have what you are looking for.
Lastly, I don't know how many of you are data savy. I would assume some more than others. But if you are looking to improve you line, skill and ultimately lower your lap times a lap timer/display coupled with some sort of video are the tools you need regardless of who manufatures it.
To be candid, I think our line is a bit too large and there is some overlap. But if we look at our customer base they seem to be happy with what we are producing. Do our competitors offer some features that we don't? Some do. Do we offer features that they don't? Sometimes.
We have the Apple argument all the time! If only were were Apple.
The processing power in the SmaryCam can not be compared to our other products for the simple fact that SmartyCam is dealing with much more information than a logger is. Just look at the size of a video file as compared to a data file. 1/2 hour of video is hundreds of times larger than a 1/2 hour of logged data.
I wish we could satisfy every customer with our products. Unfortunately we can't. And we understand that. All we can do, all I can do is keep you all informed and recommend the products that fit your needs.
One of my roles at AiM is to be "the customer". This is why I have lobbied for the functionality some of you are requesting. But sometimes my view is too narrow in relationship to our product line.
I would love to see a wireless all in one box that does video, logs data and makes french toast on the way to the track. Unfortunately this does not exist yet...
On the idea of it being bad business; A little background about AiM. We have been in business since 1976 as a micro processor company. In the 80's Fiat contacted aim about producing a logger for their dyno's. This is when AiM started to produce data loggers. They started off small and thus grew into the largest data company with about 100,000 systems sold. That is a large number for a so called niche market. AiM has done pretty well over the years. Can we do better? You bet. And we spend a lot of time talking and thinking about what the next move is going to be. The Solo DL looks to be exactly what the HPDE market needs. Above and beyond the SmartyCam. Video is a great tool to "see" what happened. But the Solo DL is a better tool to see "what" is going to happen. These 2 products paired would be the best of both worlds.
Our prices, bang for the buck, are the best in the business. At least I think they are.
As always, I am here to answer any questions you may have. If I can help in any way just let me know. Also, know that you may need to look elsewhere for products that fit your specific needs. I am not saying to buy a competitors product, but sometimes our competitors have what you are looking for.
Lastly, I don't know how many of you are data savy. I would assume some more than others. But if you are looking to improve you line, skill and ultimately lower your lap times a lap timer/display coupled with some sort of video are the tools you need regardless of who manufatures it.
06-10-2011, 12:40 PM
#23
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Jordan, I sent you longer email regarding my point of view. I really do not have any desire to mount anything else in my car. Smartycam 'all in one' concept was great. Attempt to make a modular system out of it was a marketing mistake IMHO.
Separate solo logger with a display for laps time shown is nice idea for some, but, it will be a PITA to find a good spot in a _stock_ _street_ car to mount it so it could be visible while driving and removable and not obstruct anything with extra cords.
Personally, I am much less concerned to see my lap times in real time than to be able to see what I did wrong afterwards. I do not want modular system, all I want is one single camera box with some wires, and if it could be wireless it would be even better.
what CRex says is also true. Kinda same story that got Android phones to take huge segment off Iphone. Happens all the time...
Separate solo logger with a display for laps time shown is nice idea for some, but, it will be a PITA to find a good spot in a _stock_ _street_ car to mount it so it could be visible while driving and removable and not obstruct anything with extra cords.
Personally, I am much less concerned to see my lap times in real time than to be able to see what I did wrong afterwards. I do not want modular system, all I want is one single camera box with some wires, and if it could be wireless it would be even better.
what CRex says is also true. Kinda same story that got Android phones to take huge segment off Iphone. Happens all the time...
After you "look" at the video between sessions, how do you know if you have improved? You don't. Not until you review the video again. And so it goes. Like a hamster on a wheel.
Predictive lap timing is used by most pro drivers. They know how important it is as a tool to go faster. To explore a new line to see if there is any gain or loss. To see if that line change produces a gain yet causes a loss at the next set of corners.
Data and video are best used with each other along with a display.
Again, We may not be able to satify everyone.
The Solo is quite small and I am sure if a suction cup will not pass tech other mounting solutions can be found.
My background is in HPDE. I used to have a school for 3 years out in CA and instruct when I have time with Chin Motorsports. So I feel for you guys, I really do. And believe me when I say I am taking this feedback seriously.
Jordan
06-10-2011, 01:44 PM
#24
Drifting
Jordan, thanks for your candid responses, it's refreshing to see a company speak openly about their products. As you well know, I'm a huge AIM fan, going back to 1996 when I was karting. The EVO4+MC3 combo in my GT3 works very, very well. The only downside to the system is that it tells me the truth about how slow I am
06-10-2011, 01:52 PM
#25
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Jordan, thanks for your candid responses, it's refreshing to see a company speak openly about their products. As you well know, I'm a huge AIM fan, going back to 1996 when I was karting. The EVO4+MC3 combo in my GT3 works very, very well. The only downside to the system is that it tells me the truth about how slow I am
I am sure you have gotten faster with your EVO/MC3 set up. Maybe not as fast as you would like, but non the less faster.
And as a user I want to remind you to make sure you keep all your firmwares up to date. We are always adding features, so stay current.
06-10-2011, 02:27 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
i just looked up info on http://aimsolo.com.au/ - if i get it right one needs 'DL' version to work with smartycam/ECU? it is priced same as smartycam what renders it not as a potential addition but a substitute and I see no reason to substitute my smartycam so far.
If I would decide to spend $2K+ on a data system I will not be buying 2 devices with overlapping functions. it will be hub, 3 cameras, brake pressure and some other custom sensors, proper dash display probably integrated into steering wheel. It would cost more but it would be worth it.
'Solo' probably will find its users but it is not for me as I do not want another stand-alone product next to one i already have, I see no point to multiply gyroscopes and GPS sensors. a simple $150 display connected to smartycam showing real-time data directly from it would make sense to add, a $800 Solo DL - does not make much sense to me, sorry.
If I would decide to spend $2K+ on a data system I will not be buying 2 devices with overlapping functions. it will be hub, 3 cameras, brake pressure and some other custom sensors, proper dash display probably integrated into steering wheel. It would cost more but it would be worth it.
'Solo' probably will find its users but it is not for me as I do not want another stand-alone product next to one i already have, I see no point to multiply gyroscopes and GPS sensors. a simple $150 display connected to smartycam showing real-time data directly from it would make sense to add, a $800 Solo DL - does not make much sense to me, sorry.
06-10-2011, 02:41 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
nothing personal, Jordan. you are a top guy, we all know it and it`s not your fault marketing acts in mysterious ways.
if some corporate genius does not understand that they bury down a unique product that currently had no real competition on a market by under developing it - what can one do? it is nothing new, just sad. smartycam concept is great as it is, it could be better but is not, so, it`s life. we`ll live.
if some corporate genius does not understand that they bury down a unique product that currently had no real competition on a market by under developing it - what can one do? it is nothing new, just sad. smartycam concept is great as it is, it could be better but is not, so, it`s life. we`ll live.
06-10-2011, 03:05 PM
#29
Racer
Thread Starter
i just looked up info on http://aimsolo.com.au/ - if i get it right one needs 'DL' version to work with smartycam/ECU? it is priced same as smartycam what renders it not as a potential addition but a substitute and I see no reason to substitute my smartycam so far.
If I would decide to spend $2K+ on a data system I will not be buying 2 devices with overlapping functions. it will be hub, 3 cameras, brake pressure and some other custom sensors, proper dash display probably integrated into steering wheel. It would cost more but it would be worth it.
'Solo' probably will find its users but it is not for me as I do not want another stand-alone product next to one i already have, I see no point to multiply gyroscopes and GPS sensors. a simple $150 display connected to smartycam showing real-time data directly from it would make sense to add, a $800 Solo DL - does not make much sense to me, sorry.
If I would decide to spend $2K+ on a data system I will not be buying 2 devices with overlapping functions. it will be hub, 3 cameras, brake pressure and some other custom sensors, proper dash display probably integrated into steering wheel. It would cost more but it would be worth it.
'Solo' probably will find its users but it is not for me as I do not want another stand-alone product next to one i already have, I see no point to multiply gyroscopes and GPS sensors. a simple $150 display connected to smartycam showing real-time data directly from it would make sense to add, a $800 Solo DL - does not make much sense to me, sorry.
06-10-2011, 05:06 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
I am confused by your argument. Maybe I am missing something here... Smartycam provides video with data overlay , now adding a datalogger instead of a ECU Bridge will only make it better by logging data for offline analysis, more data inputs on the video overlay etc...The ECU bridge is $250 , my understanding is this datalogger is $700. Are you concerned about the price or just the concept of adding more devices?
solo dl is one way. EVO4 is other way. giving us good datalogger for free by adding it directly into smartycam firmware would be a third not a half bad way.
so, not much of an argument, really. just different options.