RS 4.0 pics of Airbox & Diveplanes
04-28-2011, 02:55 PM
#17
04-28-2011, 03:01 PM
#18
I think the engine is the heart of the car. And it justifies the price premium. I don't begrudge a profit on these limited production run cars and they should be seeing premium profits for premium engineering (if in the engine alone and in no other part of the car.) I'm told the crank alone is wildly expensive. Add to the shopping cart things like bespoke P's & C's, heads, intake and then all the R&D to build a street variant of a race engine to meet emissions and warranty ... it's still mind-boggling to contemplate the 415hp GT3 3.8 engine having a warranty, let alone this monster just a few years after even the 996 GT3 -- insanely great value at $99K when it arrived, then $10K more for the 3.8, then $135K to get to 450hp and the shorter diff. Well we've lost the value price point and the car is still far too heavy, but the engine is something to behold and goes a long way towards justifying the $50K price increase this time.
Little plastic badge with the printed number aside, and ignoring the attention to weight reduction (because overall, the car is still 3000 lbs and hardly 1% lighter in USA spec) I think the engine speaks volumes.
I dislike the superlatives and effusive, bold and exaggerated claims of Mr Preuninger, but he's in marketing and that's their job -- but if he says one thing that's fairly stated about the RSR, it's the "God like" reputation and standing of the RSR engine. To bring this engine to a public buyer for an amateur to go wail on the thing at the track -- that's a helluva of challenge for a car maker to bring to market. The same offering from Ferrari or Lamborghini (without the lineage to any race car) costs $100K+ more.
The next step for Porsche has to be in bringing down the weight of the 911. I think they have to go "all in" and rebuild the tub in a monocoque CF. "Absurd!" you say? But Lamborghini has delivered it in the Aventador and Mac-la-ran in the 12C. Ferrari can't be too far behind. A composite material chassis seems impossible, but so is bringing the RSR engine to the street.
You could get someone to build this engine for say $30K. Maybe a little more. But don't expect a simple 10K mile service interval let alone a warranty and 100K of emissions warranty! Mind-boggling.
The rest of the car, well, ho hum. But the engine ...
Little plastic badge with the printed number aside, and ignoring the attention to weight reduction (because overall, the car is still 3000 lbs and hardly 1% lighter in USA spec) I think the engine speaks volumes.
I dislike the superlatives and effusive, bold and exaggerated claims of Mr Preuninger, but he's in marketing and that's their job -- but if he says one thing that's fairly stated about the RSR, it's the "God like" reputation and standing of the RSR engine. To bring this engine to a public buyer for an amateur to go wail on the thing at the track -- that's a helluva of challenge for a car maker to bring to market. The same offering from Ferrari or Lamborghini (without the lineage to any race car) costs $100K+ more.
The next step for Porsche has to be in bringing down the weight of the 911. I think they have to go "all in" and rebuild the tub in a monocoque CF. "Absurd!" you say? But Lamborghini has delivered it in the Aventador and Mac-la-ran in the 12C. Ferrari can't be too far behind. A composite material chassis seems impossible, but so is bringing the RSR engine to the street.
You could get someone to build this engine for say $30K. Maybe a little more. But don't expect a simple 10K mile service interval let alone a warranty and 100K of emissions warranty! Mind-boggling.
The rest of the car, well, ho hum. But the engine ...
04-28-2011, 04:33 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
I think the engine is the heart of the car. And it justifies the price premium. I don't begrudge a profit on these limited production run cars and they should be seeing premium profits for premium engineering (if in the engine alone and in no other part of the car.) I'm told the crank alone is wildly expensive. Add to the shopping cart things like bespoke P's & C's, heads, intake and then all the R&D to build a street variant of a race engine to meet emissions and warranty ... it's still mind-boggling to contemplate the 415hp GT3 3.8 engine having a warranty, let alone this monster just a few years after even the 996 GT3 -- insanely great value at $99K when it arrived, then $10K more for the 3.8, then $135K to get to 450hp and the shorter diff. Well we've lost the value price point and the car is still far too heavy, but the engine is something to behold and goes a long way towards justifying the $50K price increase this time.
Little plastic badge with the printed number aside, and ignoring the attention to weight reduction (because overall, the car is still 3000 lbs and hardly 1% lighter in USA spec) I think the engine speaks volumes.
I dislike the superlatives and effusive, bold and exaggerated claims of Mr Preuninger, but he's in marketing and that's their job -- but if he says one thing that's fairly stated about the RSR, it's the "God like" reputation and standing of the RSR engine. To bring this engine to a public buyer for an amateur to go wail on the thing at the track -- that's a helluva of challenge for a car maker to bring to market. The same offering from Ferrari or Lamborghini (without the lineage to any race car) costs $100K+ more.
The next step for Porsche has to be in bringing down the weight of the 911. I think they have to go "all in" and rebuild the tub in a monocoque CF. "Absurd!" you say? But Lamborghini has delivered it in the Aventador and Mac-la-ran in the 12C. Ferrari can't be too far behind. A composite material chassis seems impossible, but so is bringing the RSR engine to the street.
You could get someone to build this engine for say $30K. Maybe a little more. But don't expect a simple 10K mile service interval let alone a warranty and 100K of emissions warranty! Mind-boggling.
The rest of the car, well, ho hum. But the engine ...
Little plastic badge with the printed number aside, and ignoring the attention to weight reduction (because overall, the car is still 3000 lbs and hardly 1% lighter in USA spec) I think the engine speaks volumes.
I dislike the superlatives and effusive, bold and exaggerated claims of Mr Preuninger, but he's in marketing and that's their job -- but if he says one thing that's fairly stated about the RSR, it's the "God like" reputation and standing of the RSR engine. To bring this engine to a public buyer for an amateur to go wail on the thing at the track -- that's a helluva of challenge for a car maker to bring to market. The same offering from Ferrari or Lamborghini (without the lineage to any race car) costs $100K+ more.
The next step for Porsche has to be in bringing down the weight of the 911. I think they have to go "all in" and rebuild the tub in a monocoque CF. "Absurd!" you say? But Lamborghini has delivered it in the Aventador and Mac-la-ran in the 12C. Ferrari can't be too far behind. A composite material chassis seems impossible, but so is bringing the RSR engine to the street.
You could get someone to build this engine for say $30K. Maybe a little more. But don't expect a simple 10K mile service interval let alone a warranty and 100K of emissions warranty! Mind-boggling.
The rest of the car, well, ho hum. But the engine ...
My current 3.8RS with MSRP of $135K is the better buy.
But I still want a 4.0. I would if I could.
What else this side of a Corvette can you buy for $185K with 500N/A HP that will do these laptimes and last while giving it a proper track beating twice a month covered under a 4 year warranty and service everywhere?
Even the beatability of a Corvette is debatable.
04-28-2011, 04:49 PM
#21
Well said. I have said before that the model after the 991 should have a CF tub.
My current 3.8RS with MSRP of $135K is the better buy.
But I still want a 4.0. I would if I could.
What else this side of a Corvette can you buy for $185K with 500N/A HP that will do these laptimes and last while giving it a proper track beating twice a month covered under a 4 year warranty and service everywhere?
Even the beatability of a Corvette is debatable.
My current 3.8RS with MSRP of $135K is the better buy.
But I still want a 4.0. I would if I could.
What else this side of a Corvette can you buy for $185K with 500N/A HP that will do these laptimes and last while giving it a proper track beating twice a month covered under a 4 year warranty and service everywhere?
Even the beatability of a Corvette is debatable.
04-28-2011, 05:36 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Adam,
I appreciate your eloquent presentation on the 4L...but, wouldn't it be nice if P could engineer an engine that does not puke coolant fittings, dump oil, etc.
I know there have been other major drive line problems w/ the MK 2, and somewhat fewer w/ the MK1.
I am feeling hesitant to drive my RS' at speed!
I appreciate your eloquent presentation on the 4L...but, wouldn't it be nice if P could engineer an engine that does not puke coolant fittings, dump oil, etc.
I know there have been other major drive line problems w/ the MK 2, and somewhat fewer w/ the MK1.
I am feeling hesitant to drive my RS' at speed!
04-28-2011, 05:53 PM
#23
Adam,
I appreciate your eloquent presentation on the 4L...but, wouldn't it be nice if P could engineer an engine that does not puke coolant fittings, dump oil, etc.
I know there have been other major drive line problems w/ the MK 2, and somewhat fewer w/ the MK1.
I am feeling hesitant to drive my RS' at speed!
I appreciate your eloquent presentation on the 4L...but, wouldn't it be nice if P could engineer an engine that does not puke coolant fittings, dump oil, etc.
I know there have been other major drive line problems w/ the MK 2, and somewhat fewer w/ the MK1.
I am feeling hesitant to drive my RS' at speed!
I can't bring to mind right now any other major weakness that's been more than one-off quality failures, but not actually design failures (except for the annoyance and disappointment of the RMS f'rinstance.) I think the diff weakness is open to debate, but I'm on the side of saying it can be a lot better. When I was trying to assemble my thoughts and initial impression on what we know about the 4.0 today, day one, I tried to avoid getting back into rehashing fears and concerns about every other line item on the car -- I was focusing just one what we know and how Porsche describes the engine.
The 4.0 RS brings two qualities to the table -- either the buyer credits the engine as being worth the "up-sell" from the 3.8 RS or they desire and can afford the exclusivity and collectibility. I don't think too many buyers will want the car for the white-out paint scheme and faded Martini stripe down the middle. : )
04-28-2011, 06:59 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
If P is listening to these Forums...hopefully, they fixed some of these engineering problems on this "Showcase Engine".
I agree,
you buy: for the engine, or the collectability...or both, if you are a lucky Rennlister!
p.s. the stripe still reminds me of the Scud.
and, I can't believe they would paint that beautiful CF rear wing...and put "PORSCHE" across it!
(Porsche painted the CF rear wing lets on the '07/8 RS, also).
I agree,
you buy: for the engine, or the collectability...or both, if you are a lucky Rennlister!
p.s. the stripe still reminds me of the Scud.
and, I can't believe they would paint that beautiful CF rear wing...and put "PORSCHE" across it!
(Porsche painted the CF rear wing lets on the '07/8 RS, also).
04-28-2011, 08:51 PM
#26
Nordschleife Master
FYI, as I understand it, dive planes are actually pretty awesome. Everyone who doesn't think they look bad should add a pair. I've read that they work by creating vortexes along the side of the car. Smooth airflow is good where the car is smooth AND flat, but along the side you have the wheel arches. Turns out you have less drag AND less lift when you have dive planes in many situations. It's a win win.
04-28-2011, 08:58 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
If P is listening to these Forums...hopefully, they fixed some of these engineering problems on this "Showcase Engine".
I agree,
you buy: for the engine, or the collectability...or both, if you are a lucky Rennlister!
p.s. the stripe still reminds me of the Scud.
and, I can't believe they would paint that beautiful CF rear wing...and put "PORSCHE" across it!
(Porsche painted the CF rear wing lets on the '07/8 RS, also).
I agree,
you buy: for the engine, or the collectability...or both, if you are a lucky Rennlister!
p.s. the stripe still reminds me of the Scud.
and, I can't believe they would paint that beautiful CF rear wing...and put "PORSCHE" across it!
(Porsche painted the CF rear wing lets on the '07/8 RS, also).
04-28-2011, 10:32 PM
#29
They could just go aluminum like many others already have. Significantly lighter without a massive change to production pipeline. Porsche is way behind at the moment on body materials.
04-28-2011, 10:50 PM
#30
Carbon chassis? In monocoque??? Not gonna happen, not for under several hundred thousand. And what do you do when you have an "accident", throw out the chassis and buy another?
Aluminum...yeah, but then be prepared to have some fun when it comes time to add a cage.
Aluminum...yeah, but then be prepared to have some fun when it comes time to add a cage.