PCCB on track some questions
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
#16
It sounds like you're very gentle on the brakes. I doubt the measurement of 0.01mm -- perhaps 0.1mm? Maybe your tech "benched" the rotors and used a digital micrometer and took exceptionally accurate measurements. Having gone through this process myself more than a few (dozen) times, I find it to be a matter of averaging many measurements to get an average accurate to about 0.1 or 0.05mm at best.
i thought i wore through half-way point on my first set of pads after 2 trips to the ring and actually took them out to replace with P50's. when i found out the P50's were damaged during shipment so i put the original oem's back in and they lasted another 6 trips to the ring before the wear indicator went off. after each trip i measured rotors, inspected for damage and checked width of top/bottom of all pads on the car.
yes, the rotors will look different after the first trip to the track, but i think this is normal. so long as there is no graining on the rotor surface and you aren't below the minimum thickness of the rotor. mine are smooth and just inspected during my first annual service at a porsche zentrum here.
for me, i am going to use these rotors up and at that point i'll decide to swap to steels or go with pccb's again. I think if they outlast 2 sets of oem steels, then they are worth it. any longer and its a bonus. Any less, and i'll just go to steels. I hate cracked pinhole rotors after one track day. i don't miss that at all. The car is 150K, i'll deal with 16k rotor replacement. hell there are enough people scared of their pccb's here i could just get a set cheap anyways.
While some might consider US$16K (10% of purchase) price to be an acceptable "wear item" there's two problems: the product doesn't live up to Porsche's claims; and second, no matter the claims, the rotors wear out at 20 days ... let's say even 36 track days, that's still at least $500 per day for rotors, plus pads, caliper bolts, maintenance and labor costs. That's an absurdly expensive operating cost.
And while you're not experiencing "wedging" or "tapering" of the pads, it's a known issue that I've encountered on stock pads, more so on the P50's, but I ejected the P50's before they were even 50% gone on the leading edge (in January or thereabouts when Porsche dropped them from the approved parts list.) I think the P50's took off more rotor surface in five or so days that the stock pads have taken off in ten days. Still, the problem there is the stock pads are US $700+ and they deteriorate in a matter of five days on the track.
Since the pads wear out quickly (and some need to reverse them before 50% wear to increase their useful life) there's also the cost and the continuous question mark of "how much more pad can I take off" and if you're at the track, will you get a whole day or have quit before the day is done? Will you swap pads sooner just to avoid running short during the day? It's a mess.
I think what we're hearing about after-market slotted steel rotors is encouraging, but it gives up the unsprung and flywheel mass advantages (and of course, they still wear out and need continuous maintenance and replacement costs.)
I'm still optimistic that an after-market ceramic rotor is the solution, but it's a matter of a proven product, not just claims.
06-06-2011, 02:09 PM
#17
ONLY 2010+ GT3/RS (380mm/350mm) or 2009+ Carrera (350mm350mm) PCCB wanted.
06-06-2011, 03:41 PM
#18
ps. You can have a second set ... I already threw my hat in for the first set ... doh ... now I'm setting the floor bid ... aargh! ... stupid Internet.
06-06-2011, 04:43 PM
#19
I've bought 2 sets at that price for my 997gt3.mk1.
'USED' parts, especially rotors, if used in anyway (unless they are off a brand new car with 0 miles), will be substantially discounted if you actually want to move them - not listed in perpetuity. When I say substantial, I mean more than 50% off list 'easily' for even 1000 miles on them.
I stand by my original price - approx $4500 for a set of 380/350 being a fair price - and that is fair to the buyer and seller - no one is getting any kind of deal at that price for used rotors. And these are prices paid to people with very above average reputations for rotors in near new condition - but used.
To the poster saying they would hit the $5k bid for every 997.2 rotor out there - be careful, you may be writing $5k checks at a very rapid rate.
'USED' parts, especially rotors, if used in anyway (unless they are off a brand new car with 0 miles), will be substantially discounted if you actually want to move them - not listed in perpetuity. When I say substantial, I mean more than 50% off list 'easily' for even 1000 miles on them.
I stand by my original price - approx $4500 for a set of 380/350 being a fair price - and that is fair to the buyer and seller - no one is getting any kind of deal at that price for used rotors. And these are prices paid to people with very above average reputations for rotors in near new condition - but used.
To the poster saying they would hit the $5k bid for every 997.2 rotor out there - be careful, you may be writing $5k checks at a very rapid rate.
06-06-2011, 05:54 PM
#20
I've bought 2 sets at that price for my 997gt3.mk1.
'USED' parts, especially rotors, if used in anyway (unless they are off a brand new car with 0 miles), will be substantially discounted if you actually want to move them - not listed in perpetuity. When I say substantial, I mean more than 50% off list 'easily' for even 1000 miles on them.
I stand by my original price - approx $4500 for a set of 380/350 being a fair price - and that is fair to the buyer and seller - no one is getting any kind of deal at that price for used rotors. And these are prices paid to people with very above average reputations for rotors in near new condition - but used.
To the poster saying they would hit the $5k bid for every 997.2 rotor out there - be careful, you may be writing $5k checks at a very rapid rate.
'USED' parts, especially rotors, if used in anyway (unless they are off a brand new car with 0 miles), will be substantially discounted if you actually want to move them - not listed in perpetuity. When I say substantial, I mean more than 50% off list 'easily' for even 1000 miles on them.
I stand by my original price - approx $4500 for a set of 380/350 being a fair price - and that is fair to the buyer and seller - no one is getting any kind of deal at that price for used rotors. And these are prices paid to people with very above average reputations for rotors in near new condition - but used.
To the poster saying they would hit the $5k bid for every 997.2 rotor out there - be careful, you may be writing $5k checks at a very rapid rate.
Anybody with a set of 1000 mile 997.2 PCCBs in mint condition, I'll take a set at $4500 and pay the freight. Thanks!
I know Savy will bid up to $5K, but we know money is like water to that poor boy ... : ) ... show him some silicon carbide and he's like Eliot Spitzer at a ... "escort" service ... : ) ... or maybe like JC with the Carrera GT ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7itAU3LrwsQ
06-06-2011, 06:33 PM
#21
There is no magic here, $4.5k is a lot of money for used rotors. I think a used ceramic rotor should last 25 very hard track days with P50s on them. In that time, you would need 3 sets of cheap ATE Irons at about $500 for all 4 - so this is $1500 for a 350x350 mk1 Iron user - or 1/3rd the cost at the cheapest possibly alternative versus used ceramics - $3G in savings buys 2 sets of Hoosiers.
06-06-2011, 11:47 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I have 2 Fronts and 1 Rear used PCCB rotors off my 2007 GT3RS for sale. If interested, I can arrange to get pics taken and sent to you. Let me know. Thanks.
06-07-2011, 12:01 PM
#24
The point is that they won't be in mint condition they will be used - undoubtedly at the track a few days and for whatever number of reasons they decide some type of cheap iron or expensive iron is what they want and that they currently would like around $5k to defray the cost of this particular purchase. No one is going to sell a brand new rotor they just paid for and no one is going to buy a ceramic rotor with substantial wear as it is worthless. The ones that come up generally have been street driven with a few trackdays - I have bought 2 sets off mk1gt3s. I would never buy a set off a gt2 as one day in that car could kill the rears - 1 day.
There is no magic here, $4.5k is a lot of money for used rotors. I think a used ceramic rotor should last 25 very hard track days with P50s on them. In that time, you would need 3 sets of cheap ATE Irons at about $500 for all 4 - so this is $1500 for a 350x350 mk1 Iron user - or 1/3rd the cost at the cheapest possibly alternative versus used ceramics - $3G in savings buys 2 sets of Hoosiers.
There is no magic here, $4.5k is a lot of money for used rotors. I think a used ceramic rotor should last 25 very hard track days with P50s on them. In that time, you would need 3 sets of cheap ATE Irons at about $500 for all 4 - so this is $1500 for a 350x350 mk1 Iron user - or 1/3rd the cost at the cheapest possibly alternative versus used ceramics - $3G in savings buys 2 sets of Hoosiers.
You're saying that even if the pads have been broken in properly; the driver warms the PCCBs up well the first lap; he/she employs a decent 'cool down' lap; drives with all electronic 'nannies' off, that the rear PCCBs will be ruined after one track day on a GT2?
Ruined from what? Rear pads being so worn that they then damage the rotor?
Can the 997 GT2 even be used on the track with its OEM PCCBs if the owner observes the above, adds the rear brake ducts and replaces the pads when they hit 50% wear?
I just find it incredibly hard to believe that there isn't a way to actually use the car in the way it was designed, (i.e. on a road course) using it with the OEM braking system.
Just looking for more info.
Bish
06-07-2011, 12:01 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Here are some 996 pads and rotors for sale.
What would they be worth?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...Q5fAccessories
**Disclaimer** is a friend of mine looking to sell asked me what he could expect to get.
What would they be worth?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...Q5fAccessories
**Disclaimer** is a friend of mine looking to sell asked me what he could expect to get.
06-07-2011, 12:45 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
For the 996 version, probably like $2-3,000?! Or more! (I have heard people able to sell them closer to $4,000, but I think it'd take a right buyer for that kind of price..)
06-07-2011, 01:05 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thank you.
He sold the car and is now racing, so he has no use.
He was thinking $3800.00 including the pads. Sounds OK then.
I just listed them in the classifieds as well for $3800.00.
They look good to me, but I don't know enough about PCCB wear, if any.
I can promise that at least it is not an E-Bay scam and he will ship :-)
He sold the car and is now racing, so he has no use.
He was thinking $3800.00 including the pads. Sounds OK then.
I just listed them in the classifieds as well for $3800.00.
They look good to me, but I don't know enough about PCCB wear, if any.
I can promise that at least it is not an E-Bay scam and he will ship :-)
06-07-2011, 01:49 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Good luck.. I think it is perfect for someone who's not tracking.. (they will basically last forever) And even for someone who track, if it is priced low enough, why not..
06-07-2011, 01:56 PM
#29
Bid is currently $4500 - $5000
Offers? Hit us!
Let me get something straight:
Can the 997 GT2 even be used on the track with its OEM PCCBs if the owner observes the above, adds the rear brake ducts and replaces the pads when they hit 50% wear?
I just find it incredibly hard to believe that there isn't a way to actually use the car in the way it was designed, (i.e. on a road course) using it with the OEM braking system.
Just looking for more info.
Bish
Can the 997 GT2 even be used on the track with its OEM PCCBs if the owner observes the above, adds the rear brake ducts and replaces the pads when they hit 50% wear?
I just find it incredibly hard to believe that there isn't a way to actually use the car in the way it was designed, (i.e. on a road course) using it with the OEM braking system.
Just looking for more info.
Bish
With that said I am a reasonably decent driver and I don't invoke PSM a lot which contributes to not wearing the rears so much. I DO typically drive with PSM on as it doesn't meaningfully affect my lap times. Sloppy drivers would wear rear brakes at a faster rate due to frequent PSM intervention.
I am ONLY seeking 997.2 f/r rotors.
GT3:
Front p/n: L 997.351.031.96 R 997.351.032.96
Rear p/n: L 997.352.031.94 R 997.352.032.94
Carrera:
Front p/n: L 997.351.031.00 R 997.351.032.00
Rear p/n: L 997.352.031.00 R 997.352.032.00
