experience with rain tires on .2 GT3 RS
08-26-2010, 09:03 AM
#1
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experience with rain tires on .2 GT3 RS
I'm shopping for a second set of tires to use when it rains at the nurburgring. I have a school coming up and would rather have a different plan than praying that it doesn't rain. I still back way down if its pouring but driving on the PSC's is just plain crazy if its a steady downpour. the back end really wants to be the front as low as 80kph if you hit any of the numerous areas of the track where water is flowing across the track.
Right now, i'm shopping for Nitto Invo's. anyone have experience with them? I read about them having softer than expected sidewalls which would worry me. I plan to get a second set of 19" wheels so i can swap if it rains and then go back to PSC's for dry which I absolutely love!
My other choice is the Pirelli Corsa Directionale in front and Asymetrico in back. I have experience on these and when new they do okay in rain, but definitely not like the PS2. I wish we had PS2's in oem sizes. any other ideas on tires appreciated.
-jim
Right now, i'm shopping for Nitto Invo's. anyone have experience with them? I read about them having softer than expected sidewalls which would worry me. I plan to get a second set of 19" wheels so i can swap if it rains and then go back to PSC's for dry which I absolutely love!
My other choice is the Pirelli Corsa Directionale in front and Asymetrico in back. I have experience on these and when new they do okay in rain, but definitely not like the PS2. I wish we had PS2's in oem sizes. any other ideas on tires appreciated.
-jim
08-26-2010, 12:08 PM
#2
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Nitto Invo's. anyone have experience with them?
My generals (Continentals) from Tires Rack also have been great and I've been driving through monsoons almost every day..
08-26-2010, 01:03 PM
#5
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Pirelli Corsas ...
08-26-2010, 03:08 PM
#6
Instead of 245 & 325, you could consider 235 and 315 in whatever you choose. Run about 5 psi higher. Don't turn off PSM ... at least for a start.
08-31-2010, 11:48 AM
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There is no Porsche approved front tyre other than the Cup for the 2010 RS. Pirelli recommend you don't use their tyre and say it will invalidate the Porsche warranty. The load rating is 93 instead of 89. It may not fit the rim correctly or foul the bodywork - they say. Bit disappointing when Andreas Preuninger said Pirelli were going to produce tyres for the 2010 RS. Has anyone used them on this car in unapproved form?
I'm going to the Ring in September as well and was hoping to get a more rain suited tyres but if you want to stay Porsche legal Michelin is the only option. So I can either risk aquaplaning off at 80kph or stay on the track and invalidate my warranty.
I wonder what warranty issue could be invalidated by front tyres though? Body work fouling or rim damage fair enough. Could running the wrong tyre cause suspension or steering damage? Would a court agree with Porsche that tyre spec could damage running gear?
The other way to look at it is that if there is standing water then I'm either heading for the pits or just cruising around learning the line or having oversteer fun. Either way the rivers can be seen and crossed carefully. So perhaps the Cups would be fine. They are good in the wet after all if there's no standing water. And they are SO good in the dry.
I'm going to the Ring in September as well and was hoping to get a more rain suited tyres but if you want to stay Porsche legal Michelin is the only option. So I can either risk aquaplaning off at 80kph or stay on the track and invalidate my warranty.
I wonder what warranty issue could be invalidated by front tyres though? Body work fouling or rim damage fair enough. Could running the wrong tyre cause suspension or steering damage? Would a court agree with Porsche that tyre spec could damage running gear?
The other way to look at it is that if there is standing water then I'm either heading for the pits or just cruising around learning the line or having oversteer fun. Either way the rivers can be seen and crossed carefully. So perhaps the Cups would be fine. They are good in the wet after all if there's no standing water. And they are SO good in the dry.
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08-31-2010, 12:23 PM
#9
There is no Porsche approved front tyre other than the Cup for the 2010 RS. Pirelli recommend you don't use their tyre and say it will invalidate the Porsche warranty. The load rating is 93 instead of 89. It may not fit the rim correctly or foul the bodywork - they say. Bit disappointing when Andreas Preuninger said Pirelli were going to produce tyres for the 2010 RS. Has anyone used them on this car in unapproved form?
I'm going to the Ring in September as well and was hoping to get a more rain suited tyres but if you want to stay Porsche legal Michelin is the only option. So I can either risk aquaplaning off at 80kph or stay on the track and invalidate my warranty.
I wonder what warranty issue could be invalidated by front tyres though? Body work fouling or rim damage fair enough. Could running the wrong tyre cause suspension or steering damage? Would a court agree with Porsche that tyre spec could damage running gear?
The other way to look at it is that if there is standing water then I'm either heading for the pits or just cruising around learning the line or having oversteer fun. Either way the rivers can be seen and crossed carefully. So perhaps the Cups would be fine. They are good in the wet after all if there's no standing water. And they are SO good in the dry.
I'm going to the Ring in September as well and was hoping to get a more rain suited tyres but if you want to stay Porsche legal Michelin is the only option. So I can either risk aquaplaning off at 80kph or stay on the track and invalidate my warranty.
I wonder what warranty issue could be invalidated by front tyres though? Body work fouling or rim damage fair enough. Could running the wrong tyre cause suspension or steering damage? Would a court agree with Porsche that tyre spec could damage running gear?
The other way to look at it is that if there is standing water then I'm either heading for the pits or just cruising around learning the line or having oversteer fun. Either way the rivers can be seen and crossed carefully. So perhaps the Cups would be fine. They are good in the wet after all if there's no standing water. And they are SO good in the dry.
What element of the "warranty" would be void? And what part of the warranty would still be in effect if you crash (or have any mechanical mishap) at the Nurburgring regardless of tires?
Have you looked at the Pirelli P-Zero Trofeo?
http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/motors...o/default.page
(It's probably equally "marginal" in very wet conditions at high speed cornering on slick surfaces at the Nurburgring, but I believe it's N-rated.)
08-31-2010, 12:34 PM
#10
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There is no Porsche approved front tyre other than the Cup for the 2010 RS. Pirelli recommend you don't use their tyre and say it will invalidate the Porsche warranty. The load rating is 93 instead of 89. It may not fit the rim correctly or foul the bodywork - they say. Bit disappointing when Andreas Preuninger said Pirelli were going to produce tyres for the 2010 RS. Has anyone used them on this car in unapproved form?
I'm going to the Ring in September as well and was hoping to get a more rain suited tyres but if you want to stay Porsche legal Michelin is the only option. So I can either risk aquaplaning off at 80kph or stay on the track and invalidate my warranty.
I wonder what warranty issue could be invalidated by front tyres though? Body work fouling or rim damage fair enough. Could running the wrong tyre cause suspension or steering damage? Would a court agree with Porsche that tyre spec could damage running gear?
The other way to look at it is that if there is standing water then I'm either heading for the pits or just cruising around learning the line or having oversteer fun. Either way the rivers can be seen and crossed carefully. So perhaps the Cups would be fine. They are good in the wet after all if there's no standing water. And they are SO good in the dry.
I'm going to the Ring in September as well and was hoping to get a more rain suited tyres but if you want to stay Porsche legal Michelin is the only option. So I can either risk aquaplaning off at 80kph or stay on the track and invalidate my warranty.
I wonder what warranty issue could be invalidated by front tyres though? Body work fouling or rim damage fair enough. Could running the wrong tyre cause suspension or steering damage? Would a court agree with Porsche that tyre spec could damage running gear?
The other way to look at it is that if there is standing water then I'm either heading for the pits or just cruising around learning the line or having oversteer fun. Either way the rivers can be seen and crossed carefully. So perhaps the Cups would be fine. They are good in the wet after all if there's no standing water. And they are SO good in the dry.
I think Pirrelli have to say that to you to cover their ***, but there are a bunch of owners of all generations of GT3 running different wheels & tyres and not once I have seen a thread here saying their warranty was not honoured because they were running different tyres or wheels.
As to damage I cant imagine how such would occur, the PZeros are a slightly higher load rating than the MPSCs by around 200kg, this might imply that the "effective" spring rating is slightly higher ... not a huge deal ...
I think the question you have to ask is what are you going to compromise here?
The safety of the car in standing water, your speed/enjoyment of the ring, or the (abstract) issue of warranty?
I personally have witnessed a 997.1 GT3 spin twice in the same lap in front of me on MPSCs in standing water, luckily god was norwegian that day and the car did not hit the barriers. I for one would not drive the NS in rain on MPSCs
there are just too many places where enough water collects.
I agree with CGT that they are usable on a damp track, but not on wet.
Best
Larry
08-31-2010, 12:43 PM
#11
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I'd really be surprised if the PZeros would interfere with the bodywork or not fit the rims. As to the warranty, the question for me at least, would be, do I want a warranty on a wrecked car, or the chance that a warranty might not be honoured on a car with non std tyres?
I think Pirrelli have to say that to you to cover their ***, but there are a bunch of owners of all generations of GT3 running different wheels & tyres and not once I have seen a thread here saying their warranty was not honoured because they were running different tyres or wheels.
As to damage I cant imagine how such would occur, the PZeros are a slightly higher load rating than the MPSCs by around 200kg, this might imply that the "effective" spring rating is slightly higher ... not a huge deal ...
I think the question you have to ask is what are you going to compromise here?
The safety of the car in standing water, your speed/enjoyment of the ring, or the (abstract) issue of warranty?
I personally have witnessed a 997.1 GT3 spin twice in the same lap in front of me on MPSCs in standing water, luckily god was norwegian that day and the car did not hit the barriers. I for one would not drive the NS in rain on MPSCs
there are just too many places where enough water collects.
I agree with CGT that they are usable on a damp track, but not on wet.
Best
Larry
I think Pirrelli have to say that to you to cover their ***, but there are a bunch of owners of all generations of GT3 running different wheels & tyres and not once I have seen a thread here saying their warranty was not honoured because they were running different tyres or wheels.
As to damage I cant imagine how such would occur, the PZeros are a slightly higher load rating than the MPSCs by around 200kg, this might imply that the "effective" spring rating is slightly higher ... not a huge deal ...
I think the question you have to ask is what are you going to compromise here?
The safety of the car in standing water, your speed/enjoyment of the ring, or the (abstract) issue of warranty?
I personally have witnessed a 997.1 GT3 spin twice in the same lap in front of me on MPSCs in standing water, luckily god was norwegian that day and the car did not hit the barriers. I for one would not drive the NS in rain on MPSCs
there are just too many places where enough water collects.
I agree with CGT that they are usable on a damp track, but not on wet.
Best
Larry
They don't stand a chance if someone drags them to a court if the deny warranty because you installed a safer tyre. The RS is a street legal car not a race car and when you buy one you should be able to drive it anywhere you like.
And the crazy thing is that they give specs in a TSB for winter snow tyres.
WTF??
John
08-31-2010, 12:44 PM
#13
The Sport Cup 265's fit nicely on a 997.1 GT3 and 997.2 GT3 RS. It's apparently only a matter of Porsche being, as is all too often the case in recent years, dickless about warranting their product for its intended (and advertised) purpose. Not to mention the known defects.
08-31-2010, 12:48 PM
#14
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Agreed They sell a car with a disclaimer on the manual hi risk of aquaplaning in standing water and give you no alternative of another N tyre that would cope with it.
They don't stand a chance if someone drags them to a court if the deny warranty because you installed a safer tyre. The RS is a street legal car not a race car and when you buy one you should be able to drive it anywhere you like.
And the crazy thing is that they give specs in a TSB for winter snow tyres.
WTF??
John
They don't stand a chance if someone drags them to a court if the deny warranty because you installed a safer tyre. The RS is a street legal car not a race car and when you buy one you should be able to drive it anywhere you like.
And the crazy thing is that they give specs in a TSB for winter snow tyres.
WTF??
John
08-31-2010, 02:04 PM
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Thanks. All excellent points. Oh, forgot to mention. There are no Corsas in the UK anyway! Now - winter tyres. That's an interesting idea.
Sounds like I'm a bit hung up on remaining Porsche legal. Just a little concerned that if I start "modifying" before I know it I'm going to be ordering all those lovely parts you Americans seem to have on your cars and I'll not come around until I'm on the start line for the Nurburgring 24 hour race with a huge loan and an ongoing divorce suit.
On the subject of 18s: Porsche said they had to modify the abs and stability systems to run the 18s on the RS they ran in the 24 hour race. If I understand Google's translation correctly. You guys not had problems there?
The other option for the ring is go with the Cups on and if there is a really bad forecast then rent a set of wheels with rain tyres. Had a quote for €250 net per day. Or buy the Pirellis in Germany but then I'd need to post the Cups back to the UK. It's all so complicated!
It's going to be dry so it's all academic.
Sounds like I'm a bit hung up on remaining Porsche legal. Just a little concerned that if I start "modifying" before I know it I'm going to be ordering all those lovely parts you Americans seem to have on your cars and I'll not come around until I'm on the start line for the Nurburgring 24 hour race with a huge loan and an ongoing divorce suit.
On the subject of 18s: Porsche said they had to modify the abs and stability systems to run the 18s on the RS they ran in the 24 hour race. If I understand Google's translation correctly. You guys not had problems there?
The other option for the ring is go with the Cups on and if there is a really bad forecast then rent a set of wheels with rain tyres. Had a quote for €250 net per day. Or buy the Pirellis in Germany but then I'd need to post the Cups back to the UK. It's all so complicated!
It's going to be dry so it's all academic.