Why doesn't Porsche want to build a Cayman GT3?
05-31-2010, 09:10 PM
#32
Race Director
I really like the Cayman...problem is I need a few more inches of leg room so that my knuckles do not hit my knees when turning the wheel.
I am just the wrong build for sports cars! Dang it.
I am just the wrong build for sports cars! Dang it.
06-08-2010, 01:37 PM
#33
Intermediate
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 2009 Cayman S
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I always enjoy discussions like this one. Now, I am going to toss my hand grenade and duck....
No one--including Porsche--builds "all-new" rear-engined race cars. Porsche only builds rear-engine race cars now so they can keep building 911s for those who kneel at the 911 altar. The 911s greatest racing advantage is its reliability, which it gets from years and years of development. Porsche has done a heroic job of engineering around its inherent weakness (and lobbying sanctioning bodies
) to keep the 911 viable and competitive in racing series.
A Cayman GT3 would stomp on a 911 GT3. Better balance, better handling, better polar moment--not even close. Indeed, what Porsche should do is take the Cayman chassis, do needed upgrades, them put the 911 body style on it (remove the back seat and put the engine where it belongs). Then discontinue the Cayman and call the new car the 999 or some such. I would suggest a rear hatch for the car (like most mid-engined cars) so someone can actually access the engine, unlike the Cayman with its sealed compartment. The engine is still in the back half of the car (not in the front, like, well, one of those evil Corvettes), and perhaps longtime 911-ophiles would bite.
Then, Porsche can refit that new VW mid-engine car as the "entry-level" Porsche.
I know I have stirred up a can of worms, but as a Cayman S owner who enjoys tucking up close to GT3s in the twistys, I think I am correct....
No one--including Porsche--builds "all-new" rear-engined race cars. Porsche only builds rear-engine race cars now so they can keep building 911s for those who kneel at the 911 altar. The 911s greatest racing advantage is its reliability, which it gets from years and years of development. Porsche has done a heroic job of engineering around its inherent weakness (and lobbying sanctioning bodies
) to keep the 911 viable and competitive in racing series.A Cayman GT3 would stomp on a 911 GT3. Better balance, better handling, better polar moment--not even close. Indeed, what Porsche should do is take the Cayman chassis, do needed upgrades, them put the 911 body style on it (remove the back seat and put the engine where it belongs). Then discontinue the Cayman and call the new car the 999 or some such. I would suggest a rear hatch for the car (like most mid-engined cars) so someone can actually access the engine, unlike the Cayman with its sealed compartment. The engine is still in the back half of the car (not in the front, like, well, one of those evil Corvettes), and perhaps longtime 911-ophiles would bite.
Then, Porsche can refit that new VW mid-engine car as the "entry-level" Porsche.
I know I have stirred up a can of worms, but as a Cayman S owner who enjoys tucking up close to GT3s in the twistys, I think I am correct....
06-08-2010, 02:06 PM
#35
Intermediate
The rear engine is a great design because you can have back seats. They come in handy during trips for storage and also for double dating. Much better than a roller coaster ride...mix in equal parts champagne, hot babe, back seat and turbo boost and it's smooth sailing.
06-08-2010, 02:12 PM
#36
Drifting
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Now that PAG and VAG (not to be confused with Cav and Pag) are playing who'se up who and who hasn't paid, the future of Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and cheapo Bugatti models have to be looked at in terms of maximising Group (Big-VAG) returns.
Most people who have driven the R8 LMS laud the quality of its chassis. Not surprisingly, they find it superior to 911 GT3 varients, but in road form, crippled by some hideous Audi bits, gearbox for starters, and the interior is a rather boring pastiche of 'cool'.
Now Big-VAG needs to take care not to erode sales of the group's cars by competing between Group Marques. So why make a 'cheap' big engined Cayman that goes head to head with the R8. A properly sorted R8 V10 (with a 'nice' Xtrac 8012 box) will blitz PAG's GT3/GT2 round a track and make the Italian chest hair on the Gallardo look rather floppy too.
So putting Bentley and Bugatti aside, we have a sort of pecking order - Lambo - Porsche - Audi
The Cayman fits very nicely above the Audi TT variants and below the 911's and R8s.
I have driven seriously fast swamp creatures and they are like rats down a sewer across country, a big thimbs up. On the race track ther have been a couple of problems, swampies usually come equipped with an inverted gearbox out of an RSR, which needs modification to add extra oil sprays/pickups, and the rear end geometry needs working on to better locate the wheels under all conditions.
Is this going to happen in a world where Big-VAG is going customer racing with the R8 LMS? Unlikely.
I would rather drive a Gallardo than an R8, but the racing programs have merely flattered to deceive, obviously Lambo attracts the wrong people.
Finally, if you want a car that 2 people can spend a month touring in around Europe, then there is not enough space in a Cayman, Gallardo or R8.
R+C
Most people who have driven the R8 LMS laud the quality of its chassis. Not surprisingly, they find it superior to 911 GT3 varients, but in road form, crippled by some hideous Audi bits, gearbox for starters, and the interior is a rather boring pastiche of 'cool'.
Now Big-VAG needs to take care not to erode sales of the group's cars by competing between Group Marques. So why make a 'cheap' big engined Cayman that goes head to head with the R8. A properly sorted R8 V10 (with a 'nice' Xtrac 8012 box) will blitz PAG's GT3/GT2 round a track and make the Italian chest hair on the Gallardo look rather floppy too.
So putting Bentley and Bugatti aside, we have a sort of pecking order - Lambo - Porsche - Audi
The Cayman fits very nicely above the Audi TT variants and below the 911's and R8s.
I have driven seriously fast swamp creatures and they are like rats down a sewer across country, a big thimbs up. On the race track ther have been a couple of problems, swampies usually come equipped with an inverted gearbox out of an RSR, which needs modification to add extra oil sprays/pickups, and the rear end geometry needs working on to better locate the wheels under all conditions.
Is this going to happen in a world where Big-VAG is going customer racing with the R8 LMS? Unlikely.
I would rather drive a Gallardo than an R8, but the racing programs have merely flattered to deceive, obviously Lambo attracts the wrong people.
Finally, if you want a car that 2 people can spend a month touring in around Europe, then there is not enough space in a Cayman, Gallardo or R8.
R+C
06-08-2010, 02:14 PM
#37
Intermediate
Some engineers from Weissach were at my house recently discussing a project that PES is working on for my firm...I couldn't resist asking them if Porsche had put a 3.8 in a Cayman to evaluate it and they said of course. I'd buy one. The Cayman with a 997 GT3.1 front end looks great.
06-08-2010, 04:37 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
I prefer a 911 but I think it would be perfectly fine if the Cayman/Boxster had higher performance. Different cars.
Re the comment that PAG should take a beefier-engined Cayman with a 91-look-alike body. I suspect the 991 is it, or could be, but I do not want a car with a longer wheelbase...
Re comment that a rear engine is there for back seats... perhaps. But for me I like the 11 for its rear engine dynamics. No mid-engine for me.
Re the comment that PAG should take a beefier-engined Cayman with a 91-look-alike body. I suspect the 991 is it, or could be, but I do not want a car with a longer wheelbase...
Re comment that a rear engine is there for back seats... perhaps. But for me I like the 11 for its rear engine dynamics. No mid-engine for me.
06-08-2010, 04:38 PM
#40
Gearbox would not last long with that kind of power, it would be a complete reworking of the car to make it work?
Just a thought.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxle
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
www.gboxweb.com
Just a thought.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxle
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
www.gboxweb.com
06-08-2010, 05:11 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
06-08-2010, 06:44 PM
#42
Jeez.....will it never stop. Every year some engineering/physics major expert predicts the downfall of the outdated, rear engined, obsolete design of the 911, and then some dumb SOB goes out and wins the ALMS championshipship, or sets the pole at some stupid race. What in the hell are they thinking. The idiots defy logic. When will they wake up?
06-08-2010, 07:57 PM
#43
Nordschleife Master
Jeez.....will it never stop. Every year some engineering/physics major expert predicts the downfall of the outdated, rear engined, obsolete design of the 911, and then some dumb SOB goes out and wins the ALMS championshipship, or sets the pole at some stupid race. What in the hell are they thinking. The idiots defy logic. When will they wake up?
Not to mention the special feel of being propelled by an engine back in the rear, and its special driving dynamics. But what do we know?
