Crazy at pricing difference between US and Europe. This would definitely have > $400k USD asking price here.

On the topic of Auctions, the black 997.1 GT2 that didn't meet reserve on BaT and was listed in Bonham's for next week was removed from auction. Maybe it sold ahead of time?

 

Definitely over 400k. Porsche North Houston had a similar PTS orange 2009 GT2 for sale in 2017 with 2k miles at $410k. Was for sale a few months, but it eventually sold for probably not too far off their ask.

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...ts-orange.html

 

Having just imported a Porsche from Europe, I may have to look into this opportunity. Since the car is well younger than 25, I have a few questions to ask my importer.

Not a fan of that orange personally, but I am sure that it would do well in North America for sure. Did you guys notice it was ordered new and delivered in Kuwait?

 

Hello to new and old rennlist buddies.... thinking about parting ways with my meteor grey 08 gt2

My RUF GT2 I will be reunited with and coming home to me soon, and while its cool having both just have too many cars, not enough time to enjoy them all..

If anyone wants to talk seriously, would love it to go to a rennlister for a nice deal.. car is a driver and can be enjoyed

Martin

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https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/...-911-997-gt2-1

I like the owner as it's a single owner example with 67,817 kilometers on it. Not as much as mine, but a serious effort put in. Will be fun to see what it sells for.

 

Looks like the black car, WP0AD29918S796098 has successfully sold at auction today at Pcar Market. This appears to be a legit US spec VIN, and I didn’t see anything to indicate any issues or questionable history, so here it goes into the database:



pandemic peak has clearly come and gone like the broader market

 

Was a solid result !!

Came on here also to drop a quick note, dont want to derail thread however ive had an overwhelming response to my post in my messages ..

Really bad timing as my mom was just admitted to hospital day after and its been non stop... I should've been more prepared to send out info so i wholeheartedly apologize

Please bare with me guys ill do my best to compile everything and respond back shortly! \

Martin

 

I just wanted to mention how much I appreciate (and can relate to) your signature @mchrono

 

One small note on BaT and PCar, I believe they both cap fees at $5k on any transaction over $100k, so the Total's above should probably be adjusted.

2022 certainly was an abnormal year.

The black car on PCar was listed for $250k at Porsche South Orlando in December 2021 (so just 13 months ago) and with 11k miles.

Yesterday, it sold for what I believe was $283k ($278k + $5k premium), and with 2k more miles, so 13% price increase not adjusted for additional mileage.

12% annualized seems sane, and long term sustainable (obviously prices are never a smooth path).

@iLLM3 Sorry to hear about your mom. Best wishes there. I wouldn't stress about your car now. It looks great, and there are so few around (especially Meteor Grey) that I'm sure you'll have no problem finding the buyers when timing is best for you.

 

Question for you investors: Do you guys really calculate your ROI without factoring in all the taxes, tag & title costs? ... or for that matter, any of the maintenance costs while its in your possession? (stocks & funds may also have fees associated, but I usually factor that in too)

I saw a registration in that PCar Black GT2's carfax, as well as a on-road driving video,... so I'm assuming that owner paid all those fees.

Just seems odd to me (but I'm a driver, not a collector or investor)

 

It is indeed correct to include the $5k capped value that comes from any cars that sell for over $100k on BaT as it is indeed a real cost to the buyer. It's called the Buyer's Premium. You would actually need to subtract fees from the big physical auction houses to arrive at sell prices as the numbers are typically padded with their buy fees included, which can be as high as 8-10%. The trickier part with the bigger auction houses is that they can negotiate behind the scenes a bit with their buy/sell fees, meaning we don't always really know the true numbers.

 

Hey Steve,... you're not trying to answer my question (above) are you?

.... cuz my question above was about taxes, fees & registration to get the car on the road (not auction house stuff), & whether investors (who hope to see a ROI) actually include that in their own personal "gain" calculations.

... but I also know you're more of a driver too,... I am definitely in admiration of the mileage on your cars. I have a 1991 964 Turbo for 20 yrs and have put 80k on er. Now we are spreading miles on that, my 1st Camaros & the GT3,... but it'll still take decades to catch up to you. I'm on the hunt for a high mileage 997.1 RS though too,... so maybe I'll get lucky & find one. My motto: "Depreciation is expected",... but fine if it doesn't happen. Lol

 

Hello my friend. I was not attempting to answer any question about taxes, fees, or registration, only auction fees. Dealers of course do not pay taxes or registration fees as the cars pass through us and we only pay on sales made of the cars to end customers (or wholesale transactions to other dealers), but not while the car is with us in a transitory status. I think ROI and cars is a pretty funny conversation as we routinely delude ourselves on how 'great' an investment is without factoring in any of that. As cars require serious care and feeding in comparison to say, gold bricks, it can be a humorous conversation when we're actually being honest about the overall costs. Not to suggest that GT Porsches don't generally do well, but they don't do quite as well as we seem to suggest they do (compared to other investments). But, I'd rather drive a GT3 RS than shares of any stock!

 

@bweSteve Hey, since you quoted me, I'll reply.

My 12% annualized comment wasn't meant to imply that it is or isn't a good investment. Rather say that seems reasonable to other "collector" cars that are on the way up over a longer period of time, in the context of the 80% jump in the first half of 2022 wasn't really a sustainable expectation (sure, prices could have jumped and slowly grown from there, but clearly they didn't).

I also am not a collector, though I am trying to add more cars that I enjoy driving, and trying to be thoughtful about what the cars are, and what price I pay at any point in the market. Biggest factors are 1) will the car be enjoyable/emotional to drive, 2) does it do something different than other cars I own and wish to keep, 3) do I really enjoy looking at it, and then 4) more traditional value metrics such as marque, production numbers, cult status. I would prefer buying cars that are under-appreciated and before cult status. For that reason, I really want a 458 Speciale, but will likely never buy one as even though I think I would love it, the value proposition at $550k for a 7-year old car where they made 3k of them seems way off.

I also, just mentally, well, actually physically in Excel write off 50% of the cars value on Day 1 as far as "how do I value it" for personal balance sheet purposes and never change it.

Lastly, I trade highly illiquid bonds for my career/day job, so I care a lot about value, but cars I already own only in the nerdy/theoretical sense, in that I'm hard wired to think about value of things that rarely trade. Cars are sunk money (ok, 50% sunk money ) where all I get is emotional utility as a ROI.

 

It's the only kind worth living for