997.2 GT3 (non-RS) vs. 997.2 GT3-RS thoughts?
12-23-2010, 01:22 AM
#31
GT3 player par excellence
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I couldn't write it much better myself. Lower production numbers on the 997.2GT3 may make depreciation a bit better than the .1's in the long run. When making a decision it's important to keep in mind that the primary advantages of the 997.2 RS can be added to the GT3 post purchase......
no, you cannot make a gt3 into a gt3RS. i have all four variants mentioned above.
wider butt.
bigger wing
compression ratio
gearing (.2RS)
by the time you did all that, it would have been far cheaper to get RS even at mkt premium.
GT3 is a wonderful car, but dont try to make it into an RS.
01-13-2011, 09:46 AM
#32
Wow! Sorry guys, I didn't realize this would ruffle so many feathers.......don't take it so personally, just trying to make a point for the GT3.2 guys out there who think they might be missing something. The fact is most of the heavy lifting has already been done:
1.) 4.0:1 Porsche Cup ring and pinion gear puts gearing delta back on par with .2RS.
2.) The GT3.2 rear wing is plenty big enough for my taste aesthetically and is easily adjustable according to the track you are visiting (e.g. Daytona versus Road Atlanta). The extra rear wing and added track width on the RS come in really handy, I guess, if one finds themself reguarly driving over 150mph for extended periods of time. Since I live in Florida this never happens......even when I'm on track
.
3.) LWFW, pulley, clutch assembly, pressure plate, hardware, etc...can all be duplicated straight from the .2RS if one really feels the need for it....
4.) I concur there is no way around the extra 15bhp or added track width unless you want to throw thousands at the car. For this, I prefer the added grip found on a set of dedicated track tires and rims (e.g. 18" Michelin Cups) and as much seat time as possible.
BTW, adding all of the above is still less than the delta between the base price on a GT3.2 versus a GT3RS.2.
Chris
__________________________
PCA National DE Instructor
1.) 4.0:1 Porsche Cup ring and pinion gear puts gearing delta back on par with .2RS.
2.) The GT3.2 rear wing is plenty big enough for my taste aesthetically and is easily adjustable according to the track you are visiting (e.g. Daytona versus Road Atlanta). The extra rear wing and added track width on the RS come in really handy, I guess, if one finds themself reguarly driving over 150mph for extended periods of time. Since I live in Florida this never happens......even when I'm on track
. 3.) LWFW, pulley, clutch assembly, pressure plate, hardware, etc...can all be duplicated straight from the .2RS if one really feels the need for it....
4.) I concur there is no way around the extra 15bhp or added track width unless you want to throw thousands at the car. For this, I prefer the added grip found on a set of dedicated track tires and rims (e.g. 18" Michelin Cups) and as much seat time as possible.
BTW, adding all of the above is still less than the delta between the base price on a GT3.2 versus a GT3RS.2.
Chris
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PCA National DE Instructor
01-13-2011, 10:15 AM
#33
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Not seeing the ruffled feathers.
Re: original question, I second Mooty's and Larry's comments.
Only delta that matters in the decision is track vs street usage.
Can't go wrong either way.
Re: original question, I second Mooty's and Larry's comments.
Only delta that matters in the decision is track vs street usage.
Can't go wrong either way.
01-13-2011, 11:56 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
Wow! Sorry guys, I didn't realize this would ruffle so many feathers.......don't take it so personally, just trying to make a point for the GT3.2 guys out there who think they might be missing something. The fact is most of the heavy lifting has already been done:
1.) 4.0:1 Porsche Cup ring and pinion gear puts gearing delta back on par with .2RS.
2.) The GT3.2 rear wing is plenty big enough for my taste aesthetically and is easily adjustable according to the track you are visiting (e.g. Daytona versus Road Atlanta). The extra rear wing and added track width on the RS come in really handy, I guess, if one finds themself reguarly driving over 150mph for extended periods of time. Since I live in Florida this never happens......even when I'm on track.
3.) LWFW, pulley, clutch assembly, pressure plate, hardware, etc...can all be duplicated straight from the .2RS if one really feels the need for it....
4.) I concur there is no way around the extra 15bhp or added track width unless you want to throw thousands at the car. For this, I prefer the added grip found on a set of dedicated track tires and rims (e.g. 18" Michelin Cups) and as much seat time as possible.
BTW, adding all of the above is still less than the delta between the base price on a GT3.2 versus a GT3RS.2.
Chris
__________________________
PCA National DE Instructor
1.) 4.0:1 Porsche Cup ring and pinion gear puts gearing delta back on par with .2RS.
2.) The GT3.2 rear wing is plenty big enough for my taste aesthetically and is easily adjustable according to the track you are visiting (e.g. Daytona versus Road Atlanta). The extra rear wing and added track width on the RS come in really handy, I guess, if one finds themself reguarly driving over 150mph for extended periods of time. Since I live in Florida this never happens......even when I'm on track
. 3.) LWFW, pulley, clutch assembly, pressure plate, hardware, etc...can all be duplicated straight from the .2RS if one really feels the need for it....
4.) I concur there is no way around the extra 15bhp or added track width unless you want to throw thousands at the car. For this, I prefer the added grip found on a set of dedicated track tires and rims (e.g. 18" Michelin Cups) and as much seat time as possible.
BTW, adding all of the above is still less than the delta between the base price on a GT3.2 versus a GT3RS.2.
Chris
__________________________
PCA National DE Instructor
are excellent track toys ...
I think it would be interesting to compare both cars, if the R+P & LWFW were fitted to a .2 ... I might do this to mine once its out of warranty
01-13-2011, 12:47 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
even if you change the R&P, the RS gearing is still superior...
so .2 GT3 are $100-110 on used mkt and .2 RS are $115-130 on the used mkt...
it is an absolute no brainer IMHO if the car is ever going to see a track - RS
so .2 GT3 are $100-110 on used mkt and .2 RS are $115-130 on the used mkt...
it is an absolute no brainer IMHO if the car is ever going to see a track - RS
01-13-2011, 12:51 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=PJS996GT3;8208743]even if you change the R&P, the RS gearing is still superior...
How so?
yep dealers are offering 90-100k for trade in...
How so?
yep dealers are offering 90-100k for trade in...
01-13-2011, 01:10 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=Larry Cable;8208754]
Changing only the ring and pinion to a 4.0 lowers the entire stack of gears which is not ideal... in that 1st gear essentially becomes unusable on the street. I know... I have done this in the past with my 996-3. Now do not get me wrong, I think it is a great move for a car that is primarlily a track car and you can work around the "unusably short first" on the street for the payoff at the track...
The .2RS has an awesome R&P at 3.89... unable to be ordered as of yet is what I am told. 3.89 with longer 1st first gear is both street and track optimum.
Am I splitting hairs -- to a degree yes -- but having recently done the ring and pinion (4.125) and regearing 1st thru 4th on my car, I can say that FOR ME... the R&P and the gears alone are enough to warrant going with the .2RS over the .2-3 for the difference in price. Not to mention all the other incremental "improvements".
Certainly slapping a 4.0 R&P in a GT3 will liven it up and make it "rs like" in terms of corner exit speed etc.. and if I had a .2GT3 I would do it. But now having done it both ways (just R&P and R&P with gears) I would not say that the R&P alone is equal to the RS stock set up.
The .2RS has an awesome R&P at 3.89... unable to be ordered as of yet is what I am told. 3.89 with longer 1st first gear is both street and track optimum.
Am I splitting hairs -- to a degree yes -- but having recently done the ring and pinion (4.125) and regearing 1st thru 4th on my car, I can say that FOR ME... the R&P and the gears alone are enough to warrant going with the .2RS over the .2-3 for the difference in price. Not to mention all the other incremental "improvements".
Certainly slapping a 4.0 R&P in a GT3 will liven it up and make it "rs like" in terms of corner exit speed etc.. and if I had a .2GT3 I would do it. But now having done it both ways (just R&P and R&P with gears) I would not say that the R&P alone is equal to the RS stock set up.
01-13-2011, 01:21 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=PJS996GT3;8208802]
Changing only the ring and pinion to a 4.0 lowers the entire stack of gears which is not ideal... in that 1st gear essentially becomes unusable on the street. I know... I have done this in the past with my 996-3. Now do not get me wrong, I think it is a great move for a car that is primarlily a track car and you can work around the "unusably short first" on the street for the payoff at the track...
The .2RS has an awesome R&P at 3.89... unable to be ordered as of yet is what I am told. 3.89 with longer 1st first gear is both street and track optimum.
Am I splitting hairs -- to a degree yes -- but having recently done the ring and pinion (4.125) and regearing 1st thru 4th on my car, I can say that FOR ME... the R&P and the gears alone are enough to warrant going with the .2RS over the .2-3 for the difference in price. Not to mention all the other incremental "improvements".
Certainly slapping a 4.0 R&P in a GT3 will liven it up and make it "rs like" in terms of corner exit speed etc.. and if I had a .2GT3 I would do it. But now having done it both ways (just R&P and R&P with gears) I would not say that the R&P alone is equal to the RS stock set up.
But (based upon the info in the owners manuals) the only differences between the .2 and RS gearing is the RS R+P and a different (longer) sixth gear as I recall. So in my mind, installing an RS R+P (admittedly not a cup ratio) results in the same setup ... I could be wrong here but that was my understanding
Changing only the ring and pinion to a 4.0 lowers the entire stack of gears which is not ideal... in that 1st gear essentially becomes unusable on the street. I know... I have done this in the past with my 996-3. Now do not get me wrong, I think it is a great move for a car that is primarlily a track car and you can work around the "unusably short first" on the street for the payoff at the track...
The .2RS has an awesome R&P at 3.89... unable to be ordered as of yet is what I am told. 3.89 with longer 1st first gear is both street and track optimum.
Am I splitting hairs -- to a degree yes -- but having recently done the ring and pinion (4.125) and regearing 1st thru 4th on my car, I can say that FOR ME... the R&P and the gears alone are enough to warrant going with the .2RS over the .2-3 for the difference in price. Not to mention all the other incremental "improvements".
Certainly slapping a 4.0 R&P in a GT3 will liven it up and make it "rs like" in terms of corner exit speed etc.. and if I had a .2GT3 I would do it. But now having done it both ways (just R&P and R&P with gears) I would not say that the R&P alone is equal to the RS stock set up.
01-13-2011, 01:31 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=Larry Cable;8208841]
But (based upon the info in the owners manuals) the only differences between the .2 and RS gearing is the RS R+P and a different (longer) sixth gear as I recall. So in my mind, installing an RS R+P (admittedly not a cup ratio) results in the same setup ... I could be wrong here but that was my understanding
I may have spoken out of turn... I was under the impression that the differences were more than only 6th gear. Really?
(where is 911Slow with the tech manual shots)
I still take the RS... R&P alone is apprx $4500-5K with labor to install...
I like brazilian booty so the RS speaks to me
But (based upon the info in the owners manuals) the only differences between the .2 and RS gearing is the RS R+P and a different (longer) sixth gear as I recall. So in my mind, installing an RS R+P (admittedly not a cup ratio) results in the same setup ... I could be wrong here but that was my understanding
(where is 911Slow with the tech manual shots
) I still take the RS... R&P alone is apprx $4500-5K with labor to install...
I like brazilian booty so the RS speaks to me
01-13-2011, 01:36 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=PJS996GT3;8208875]
I may have spoken out of turn... I was under the impression that the differences were more than only 6th gear. Really?
(where is 911Slow with the tech manual shots)
I still take the RS... R&P alone is apprx $4500-5K with labor to install...
I like brazilian booty so the RS speaks to me
I think that is the case ... but I could be wrong ...
I totally agree that the additional features of the RS over the GT3 are undoubtedly good value for money when compared the the price differential...
I definitely plan to pop an RS diff and LWFW into my .2 once the warranty runs out (as well as a rebuilt diff) and I am pretty sure that I wont walk away from that for under 10k in parts alone!!!
I may have spoken out of turn... I was under the impression that the differences were more than only 6th gear. Really?
(where is 911Slow with the tech manual shots
) I still take the RS... R&P alone is apprx $4500-5K with labor to install...
I like brazilian booty so the RS speaks to me
I totally agree that the additional features of the RS over the GT3 are undoubtedly good value for money when compared the the price differential...
I definitely plan to pop an RS diff and LWFW into my .2 once the warranty runs out (as well as a rebuilt diff) and I am pretty sure that I wont walk away from that for under 10k in parts alone!!!
01-13-2011, 01:38 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
you are correct -- my bad -- excuse my previous assumption
posted on 6sp by Savy - he is usually pretty reliable
Actually...All ratios are same except 6th. The final drive is where the difference is: 3.89 vs 3.44
2010 GT3RS / 2010 GT3 / 2008 GT3RS
Gear Ratio
1st gear 3.82 3.82 3.82
2nd gear 2.26 2.26 2.26
3rd gear 1.64 1.64 1.64
4th gear 1.29 1.29 1.29
5th gear 1.06 1.06 1.06
6th gear 0.88 0.92 0.92
Reverse 2.86 2.86 2.86
Final Drive Ratio 3.89 3.44 3.44
"As in previous years, the only available transmission is a 6 speed manual. Compared to the 2010 GT3,the final drive ratio is shorter (3.89vs.3.44) as is 6th gear (0.88vs. 0.92). This lower gearing in conjunction with the more powerful motor results in superior drive dynamics, especially in a track environment. For additional high speed engine response, a lighter single-mass flywheel is employed."
posted on 6sp by Savy - he is usually pretty reliable
Actually...All ratios are same except 6th. The final drive is where the difference is: 3.89 vs 3.44
2010 GT3RS / 2010 GT3 / 2008 GT3RS
Gear Ratio
1st gear 3.82 3.82 3.82
2nd gear 2.26 2.26 2.26
3rd gear 1.64 1.64 1.64
4th gear 1.29 1.29 1.29
5th gear 1.06 1.06 1.06
6th gear 0.88 0.92 0.92
Reverse 2.86 2.86 2.86
Final Drive Ratio 3.89 3.44 3.44
"As in previous years, the only available transmission is a 6 speed manual. Compared to the 2010 GT3,the final drive ratio is shorter (3.89vs.3.44) as is 6th gear (0.88vs. 0.92). This lower gearing in conjunction with the more powerful motor results in superior drive dynamics, especially in a track environment. For additional high speed engine response, a lighter single-mass flywheel is employed."
01-13-2011, 01:42 PM
#42
Addict
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Price delta these days seems to be about $15k.
Gearing between 997.2 GT3 RS and GT3 is the same except 6th gear, which is longer in the RS. A 997.2 GT3 with the 4.125 R&P gets better gearing than the stock RS. Nobody uses (or should use) 1st gear at any track, and I prefer the shorter 6th gear in the GT3.
A 15 Hp difference on cars that weigh more than 3,400 lbs with driver and fuel is barely noticeable. The regular GT3 has a better torque curve on the mid range, but these differences are barely noticeable. The big difference is gearing, LWFW and wider wheels with sticky tires (the RS tires stick more, but who uses MPSC for a track day?).
Wider track wheels and tires are available for both, it's a wash.
If you don't own either car, go for the RS. If you own the GT3, the 4.00:1 or even better 4.125:1 R&P, a good LSD, LWFW, ECU tune and headers will get you better performance than the RS. Of course, you can modify the RS as well and the RS takes the lead, but such differences in performance are so small that it is up to driver's skill.
Gearing between 997.2 GT3 RS and GT3 is the same except 6th gear, which is longer in the RS. A 997.2 GT3 with the 4.125 R&P gets better gearing than the stock RS. Nobody uses (or should use) 1st gear at any track, and I prefer the shorter 6th gear in the GT3.
A 15 Hp difference on cars that weigh more than 3,400 lbs with driver and fuel is barely noticeable. The regular GT3 has a better torque curve on the mid range, but these differences are barely noticeable. The big difference is gearing, LWFW and wider wheels with sticky tires (the RS tires stick more, but who uses MPSC for a track day?).
Wider track wheels and tires are available for both, it's a wash.
If you don't own either car, go for the RS. If you own the GT3, the 4.00:1 or even better 4.125:1 R&P, a good LSD, LWFW, ECU tune and headers will get you better performance than the RS. Of course, you can modify the RS as well and the RS takes the lead, but such differences in performance are so small that it is up to driver's skill.
01-13-2011, 01:45 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Price delta these days seems to be about $15k.
Gearing between 997.2 GT3 RS and GT3 is the same except 6th gear, which is longer in the RS. A 997.2 GT3 with the 4.125 R&P gets better gearing than the stock RS. Nobody uses (or should use) 1st gear at any track, and I prefer the shorter 6th gear in the GT3.
A 15 Hp difference on cars that weigh more than 3,400 lbs with driver and fuel is barely noticeable. The regular GT3 has a better torque curve on the mid range, but these differences are barely noticeable. The big difference is gearing, LWFW and wider wheels with sticky tires (the RS tires stick more, but who uses MPSC for a track day?).
Wider track wheels and tires are available for both, it's a wash.
If you don't own either car, go for the RS. If you own the GT3, the 4.00:1 or even better 4.125:1 R&P, a good LSD, LWFW, ECU tune and headers will get you better performance than the RS. Of course, you can modify the RS as well and the RS takes the lead, but such differences in performance are so small that it is up to driver's skill.
Gearing between 997.2 GT3 RS and GT3 is the same except 6th gear, which is longer in the RS. A 997.2 GT3 with the 4.125 R&P gets better gearing than the stock RS. Nobody uses (or should use) 1st gear at any track, and I prefer the shorter 6th gear in the GT3.
A 15 Hp difference on cars that weigh more than 3,400 lbs with driver and fuel is barely noticeable. The regular GT3 has a better torque curve on the mid range, but these differences are barely noticeable. The big difference is gearing, LWFW and wider wheels with sticky tires (the RS tires stick more, but who uses MPSC for a track day?).
Wider track wheels and tires are available for both, it's a wash.
If you don't own either car, go for the RS. If you own the GT3, the 4.00:1 or even better 4.125:1 R&P, a good LSD, LWFW, ECU tune and headers will get you better performance than the RS. Of course, you can modify the RS as well and the RS takes the lead, but such differences in performance are so small that it is up to driver's skill.
