Singer 911
09-25-2009, 02:00 PM
#16
Interesting how they say they will mod various model year 911's but basically use all the same technology so U can have a choice of base body styles? I'm guessing with all of those modern parts, a frame-off rebuild process, the cost is in the 150-175k range. Assuming one has the means, and this would be part street, part track car, it is about a unique a package as anything available from factory or otherwise and lighter than most.
Unless they build precision jigs or outsource production of major assemblies, every car will be different and very much unique. I imagine they'll even change the engine/transmission/suspension/brakes as they learn from the first year or ten thousand miles on the road. Of course most of the ideas in the car are off the shelf or conventional wisdom from five decades and tens of thousands of drivers, but once you assemble one set of ideas into one car, you narrow the R&D aperture and the finer details become apparent. I'm sure they also intend to build one at a time until they finish their R&D. I can't imagine them embarking upon building their first customer car (what we've seen is a prototype) until they sort out the details (probably including details of whether to make it a bespoke "manufactured" vehicle or to leave the car titled and registered based on the VIN of the donor chassis. Maybe it won't be that hard, but I'm sure they have to maintain a cautious, risk-averse strategy to bring the car to market. I imagine it was well-received at Pebble Beach, but I didn't even see it! Doh!
10-01-2009, 08:47 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
I contacted Singer about this car........
Many thanks for your interest in the Singer 911 Concept.
Due to the positive response the car has received in the last few weeks, we are actively spearheading a program to develop the concept into a fully operational prototype that accurately reflects the series cars we plan to be producing in 2010.
This development process will entail extensive road and track testing and a full shakedown of the car’s many unique features. The purpose is to present a car that effectively captures the magic of the air-cooled 911 and fully optimizes and enhances the experience for the 21st century. Our intent is to make a car that is both beautiful and thoroughly useable and we aim to offer the finished Singer 911 for press and customer appraisal before the end of the year.
Our 911 Concept is by definition an extravagantly engineered and specified vehicle and we are working to keep as much of that content in the car as possible while retaining an acceptable price point. The exact costing of the car is still being determined; we are working on option and power packages and our initial estimates suggest that entry-level cars could be in the $225K range. A comprehensive pricing structure will be in place in October, and we would be happy to notify you at that time.
The first series of cars will be painstakingly constructed to extremely exacting standards and should each take approximately four months to complete. We are currently speaking with individuals who have expressed a desire in becoming the first Singer owners and who wish to be part of the cars’ active development. Such early builds will commence this year but our broader objective is to offer an exclusive number of build spots per year, with customers allocated a build position and guaranteed delivery date upon receipt of a deposit.
If you would like to discuss an early production car or a build allocation for 2010, please feel free to contact us via email or at the numbers below.
Thanks again for your enquiry.
Sincerely,
Rob Dickinson
ROB DICKINSON, CREATIVE DIRECTOR
SINGER VEHICLE DESIGN
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, U.S.A.
+001 323 799 1237 office
+001 646 286 1660 mobile
ROB@SINGERVEHICLEDESIGN.COM
WWW.SINGERVEHICLEDESIGN.COM
Many thanks for your interest in the Singer 911 Concept.
Due to the positive response the car has received in the last few weeks, we are actively spearheading a program to develop the concept into a fully operational prototype that accurately reflects the series cars we plan to be producing in 2010.
This development process will entail extensive road and track testing and a full shakedown of the car’s many unique features. The purpose is to present a car that effectively captures the magic of the air-cooled 911 and fully optimizes and enhances the experience for the 21st century. Our intent is to make a car that is both beautiful and thoroughly useable and we aim to offer the finished Singer 911 for press and customer appraisal before the end of the year.
Our 911 Concept is by definition an extravagantly engineered and specified vehicle and we are working to keep as much of that content in the car as possible while retaining an acceptable price point. The exact costing of the car is still being determined; we are working on option and power packages and our initial estimates suggest that entry-level cars could be in the $225K range. A comprehensive pricing structure will be in place in October, and we would be happy to notify you at that time.
The first series of cars will be painstakingly constructed to extremely exacting standards and should each take approximately four months to complete. We are currently speaking with individuals who have expressed a desire in becoming the first Singer owners and who wish to be part of the cars’ active development. Such early builds will commence this year but our broader objective is to offer an exclusive number of build spots per year, with customers allocated a build position and guaranteed delivery date upon receipt of a deposit.
If you would like to discuss an early production car or a build allocation for 2010, please feel free to contact us via email or at the numbers below.
Thanks again for your enquiry.
Sincerely,
Rob Dickinson
ROB DICKINSON, CREATIVE DIRECTOR
SINGER VEHICLE DESIGN
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, U.S.A.
+001 323 799 1237 office
+001 646 286 1660 mobile
ROB@SINGERVEHICLEDESIGN.COM
WWW.SINGERVEHICLEDESIGN.COM
10-01-2009, 10:23 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
$225K!!! PT Barnum time...
10-01-2009, 11:01 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
That price point might be a tough sell!
10-03-2009, 05:37 PM
#22
The price reflects a pretty honest business. You can't begrudge them a profit. Just pencil out rough numbers for major assemblies and you're at $100K before figuring the cost of the chassis upgrades or the composite materials for the body. Then say it takes them two months to build one car (let's say they're building four in parallel with a few bottlenecks like the chassis fortification and the engine building) then the business should be writing at least a 25% gross margin just to stay in business.
Sadly, the cost of business realities just don't connect with the buyer demographic above about $150K. If you're in the $200-250K range, just look at the extraordinary investment grade cars you put in the garage, enjoy sparingly and see them appreciate (probably in leaps and bounds when the world emerges from this economic crisis, say 2012.)
I guess you could look into the "brand engineering" required to provide a more complete "value proposition" to the well-healed, savvy buyer wanting to revisit 1973 but with 1996 creature comforts.
Personally, I don't object to something like a $200K price for a top shelf example (not $225K "entry level") but I'd want near 100% retained resale value or even a confident gain in resale over time. What kind of brand would they have to build to assure their customers of investment grade price stability? What happens in a year or five when you want to resell this car and get their next creation?
For comparison, imagine getting into any investment grade Porsche in the $200-250K price range? This would get you into a very respectable '73 RS Lightweight -- this is a strong car, not a delicate vintage racer, but a car you could enjoy (sparingly) and have in the garage confident of 100% retained value, possibly appreciating quite nicely. Either car, real RS or Singer, would have to be driven with consideration for its cost to repair or replace. The real cost of the car is not the capital outlay, it's the depreciation.
Another perpective is in the driving. Having driven some very nicely built up early 911's and SC's with the 3.6 engine and gearbox, they're not the combination for me. The '89 964 is a bigger car than the '89 SC for several reasons and one of them is to accommodate the weight of the 3.6 ... suspending that hefty pendulum in the back of the '72-'89 cars creates a very different car to drive. I'm sure the bright guys behind this car have put a lot of effort into resolving the weight distribution issues; stiffening the chassis and using sophisticated, modern suspension, but in the words of a future engineer, "You can nay defy the laws of physics, captain!"
Overall, I think you'd have to be asleep or simply not a car enthusiast to be unimpressed by the Singer concept car. If they get customers and pursue building the car in earnest -- as they appear set to do -- I can only hope they create the option for a 2.7 or 2.8 MFI "poor man's" version.
Sadly, the cost of business realities just don't connect with the buyer demographic above about $150K. If you're in the $200-250K range, just look at the extraordinary investment grade cars you put in the garage, enjoy sparingly and see them appreciate (probably in leaps and bounds when the world emerges from this economic crisis, say 2012.)
I guess you could look into the "brand engineering" required to provide a more complete "value proposition" to the well-healed, savvy buyer wanting to revisit 1973 but with 1996 creature comforts.
Personally, I don't object to something like a $200K price for a top shelf example (not $225K "entry level") but I'd want near 100% retained resale value or even a confident gain in resale over time. What kind of brand would they have to build to assure their customers of investment grade price stability? What happens in a year or five when you want to resell this car and get their next creation?
For comparison, imagine getting into any investment grade Porsche in the $200-250K price range? This would get you into a very respectable '73 RS Lightweight -- this is a strong car, not a delicate vintage racer, but a car you could enjoy (sparingly) and have in the garage confident of 100% retained value, possibly appreciating quite nicely. Either car, real RS or Singer, would have to be driven with consideration for its cost to repair or replace. The real cost of the car is not the capital outlay, it's the depreciation.
Another perpective is in the driving. Having driven some very nicely built up early 911's and SC's with the 3.6 engine and gearbox, they're not the combination for me. The '89 964 is a bigger car than the '89 SC for several reasons and one of them is to accommodate the weight of the 3.6 ... suspending that hefty pendulum in the back of the '72-'89 cars creates a very different car to drive. I'm sure the bright guys behind this car have put a lot of effort into resolving the weight distribution issues; stiffening the chassis and using sophisticated, modern suspension, but in the words of a future engineer, "You can nay defy the laws of physics, captain!"
Overall, I think you'd have to be asleep or simply not a car enthusiast to be unimpressed by the Singer concept car. If they get customers and pursue building the car in earnest -- as they appear set to do -- I can only hope they create the option for a 2.7 or 2.8 MFI "poor man's" version.
