The following pictures show how the clear bra on the front of my car looks after about 2 years.


The reader should note that the car has never been abused and is professionally detailed. I have other cars with clear bra and have had no similar problems (but they do not have the same clear bra product). The product on some of the other cars has been there for as long as four years, and all cars are washed and detailed in the same place. It is fair to say that all cars have been maintained, and treated, in a very similar manner.

The Past

On the above installation I paid $2K, and was quickly less than satisfied with the material and the durability of the finish (and the completeness of the installation), but at that time put it down to a poor decision on my part and decided I would not use the installer again; and just let any interested parties know of my dissatisfaction with the material, application and value.

There were many attempts to “shout” me down as a malcontent or someone with a personal agenda. None of which was true. The “self-interest army” was mobilized to try and discredit me. I was banned precipitously (and wrongly) by Rob on FChat; having been accused of following the installer around various websites. I believe the apparent “victim” mentality played by him was, and is a ruse. I merely posted, just as I have done on Rennlist, when the subject came up particularly on the issues of value and material quality; and rarely, if ever, initiated a topic about poor quality, poor installation or poor value, until today. Partly out of laziness.

I didn’t go back to the installer to complain for a number of reasons but mainly; a.) It would have taken 4 hours of my time b.) I didn’t like the material used so replacing it was not a solution and therefor futile. Nor did I demand my money back, I just sucked it up and decided never again, putting it down to poor judgement and research on my part. The installer seems to think (mistakenly) that I have some obligation to return to him. It is best to remember the Einstein definition of stupidity: "Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result". So why engage in futile activity since the material used appears to be of dubious quality, it might be easy to put on but it doesn’t wear well.

Most times customers who are displeased follow their instincts, and just walk. Given the circumstances (with hindsight) it was the right thing to do because the future actions and activities, on the part of the supplier, suggested that Customer sensitivity, satisfaction and management (like clear bra installation?) might not be their strong suit. More effort on quality, and less on marketing hype, might have produced a different result.

The Present

Well, the “quality” subject came up again, and some pictures were posted, not originally by me, of my car, so I thought I would share them (new material) here.


The pictures (below) raise at least 3 concerns for your consideration and determination, before you spend your money:

Is it crappy material, and it wears out?

It is a crappy installation where the material or process was abused?

Is it a crappy value at $2K (plus my time)

It could also be a “crappy” combination of all 3 concerns. You decide for yourself if the evolving results are something you would like to experience. Before I noticed the problems displayed in the pictures (below) I had drawn my conclusion(s) about the durability of the overall job , and I look on the pictures as reinforcement of my early observations.

The pictures, especially the one near the front wheel, reinforces my initial dissatisfaction with the whole value proposition; and suggests that initial pictures of quality and installation indicate nothing about future satisfaction that should relied upon by anyone. I suggest that no one pay for their clear bra installation based upon pictures, and more importantly no one should select a clear bra installer based upon pictures.

That my initial negative reaction has been reinforced over time has not increased my dissatisfaction because I had already written off the job; but it might give some readers here pause about who, and how, they select a clear bra installer and maybe even more importantly the clear bra material; or if they even think clear bra is worth the hassle or expense.

If you conclude that the above pictures are indicative of some level of “crap” then it certainly does (re)establish my credibility and judgement which appears to have been questioned and pilloried. The efforts to “shout” me down have included:- appeals for positive referrals, emails to Admins and suggestions of possible lawsuits. These come across as heavy handed attempts to intimidate, and are hardly desired characteristics in a supplier or service relationship. The whining and expectation that I should return for more negative experience suggests that some people just “don’t get it”. What is that old expression?: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

If you are initially happy with your clear bra installation, keep an eye on it, compare it to others over time and perhaps yours won’t deteriorate like mine. When it comes to price, $2+K does not necessarily get you a good job, and in my experience it just might be stupid to pay that much money for the coverage and protection needed. Remember I put down this experience down to my mistake, and if you are smart you can learn from others’ mistakes

Hopefully you can use my experience(s) as a learning tool, and to draw your own conclusions, and make more informed supplier decisions. The “in your face” names and self-promoters are not always the best suppliers.

And at a minimum the pictures speak for themselves. Listen.....

Caveat Emptor!

 

Regardless of quality, 2k is insane. How is that broken down into parts and labor?

 

I recently purchased a Stradale with 5.9K miles with an existing "clear bra."
My Stradale had not been tracked or abused however the existing clear bra did have issues.

My understanding is that the various materials have improved over the years and if you want thorough coverage the kits aren't as good as a custom install.

I decided to re-do the front bumper, rocker panels, wheel arches, and headlights which ended up around $1,700 (It took almost 10 hours).

 

Who did the job? How did it come out?

 

I just spent 2.2k on clearbra for my 430 scud...I used sticker city in the valley. They did a very nice job.

 

I'll avoid discussing the history between the poster and the particular installer, as I already know more about that than I want .

However, there are some interesting points raised for me as a consumer of film products. I hear all about who are great installers, versus some bad ones that can leave gaps or cut paint. I also hear about 3M being thicker and having some orange peel, while Venture is clearer but may offer less protection. I honestly don't hear a lot about actual use experience with these films from real people who put miles on the cars (Other than Mooty who reports that his film is in shreds in about a year ).

The photos offered seem to show road or driving damage over the 4000 mile use of a nice car for the last 2 years (I believe it is a 2006). This is relatively light miles and relatively recent/new film.

Here are some questions -

* What does it mean when you see a ragged slit as in one of the pictures, does it mean the film it too thin? E.g. I've read that you can't tear film by hand, but that if it is scored, it is much more easily separated. Was this scored at the time of installation and so bound to fail eventually or a rock that just happened to hit the film enough to cut it but not penetrate and chip the paint (apparently)?

* In a second pic, there appears to be some kind of bubbling that has not only separated from the wheelwell/fender edge, but the film has eroded leaving a semi-oval exposed area. What can cause that, was it overstretched, overheated, etc or what road damage can cause the film to fall off but not cause apparent damage to the underlying paint?

* In a third pic, there appears to be separation bubbling in the film in the middle of the lower bumper. Is that poor installation (not properly prepped/adhered leading to bubbling over time) or is that because something hit it and caused the bumper to flex and separate from the film? Is there a ding there or is the bumper smooth? Not clear from the pics.

* Let's say this is normal damage arising from driving the car (pebbles, small rocks, light debris, etc). If light normal road use results in the kind of rough and cruddy appearance that is shown, does it really matter how good the initial installation is? It would appear that in some cases, you would need to replace the film in 1-2 years or 5-10K miles if you were fussy enough about the appearance to want the film in the first place (this seems to confirm Mooty's experience).

* If this is abnormal driving damage (big rocks, shards of glass, etc), then what can cause the results but not cause more apparent trauma to the underlying car surface?

* The film shown is apparently Ventureshield. Are the same or different results with respect to wear/bubbling/tearing/erosion likely when compared to 3M?

I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I would like to know, as a consumer, more about whether this is normal or exceptional, how Ventureshield compares to 3M under duress and in wear life (not just initial appearance), how much the invisible installation skills (not just the neat edges, turned under seams or "clarity" of film, but the prep, stretch, heating, etc) can change or affect such results; and frankly whether all this film stuff is actually more trouble and cost than it's worth.

 

I had this happen to my factory 3m guards by the rear wheels. Tire tread about no more than a few inches in diameter was kicked up from a car ahead of me on my way to work. The factory guards definitely protected it and was torn like the red car above. I remember this being the thicker 3m stuff, so I think all brands are susceptible to this if something big enough gets to it.

 

This has been an interesting thread indeed. I really didn’t want to put in my 0.02c, but one of my cars were part of the discussion, I feel it nec for me to talk aboutit. But it certainly made for a great distraction from current news headlines.
I don’t have an axe to grind with Colm, although, his installer of choice (not gonna name names) really made a fricken mess on my P-car. For those who have seen my other thread, you already know what happened. For those who didn't, this is the story. About a year ago, I picked up a new TT from Carlsen Porsche. Brought it to SR one weekend and met Colm. We shot the **** about cars and one thing lead to the next and we started talking about protection. Colm was very adamant about me not using Premier. I used Detailing Dynamics in the past prior to relocating to California. Not having any experience of hwo to go to, I decided to use his installer as he had so highly recommended (value being important). Well, to make a long story short, I had my TT done by his recommendation and the work was nowhere near my average standards. I called the installer and never got any replies (I believe the guy was having some marital issues). In any case, I took the car to Premier and to my horror, we found exacto cuts on my car after the 3m was removed. Damage similar to the RS on the 1st page. Let’s just say there were parts of my new Porsche that needed some re-paint at the bodywork shop.
I don't have any personal gripes with Colm despite what happened. I’m a quick study and easy going. Just very surprised with how easily anyone can overlook it. After seeing what Colm's recommended installer did to my, at the time, brand new TT. I am certain Colm has similar damage on his car(s). The situation is over and the car has since been sold, so I don't stress over this anymore. One thing I can say is that Premier's work and service lives up to their reputation. You’ll definitely pay a little more, but if you have an eye for detail and your standards are higher than my ave standards, then Premier is well worth it. I had them do my RS a while ago and have put 6500 miles and it still looks great. I’ve used another installer before I moved to California, so I do have some experience with this stuff and Premier’s job trumps over everything I’ve seen to date.
There you go, my full 2 pennies. Keep the change

 

mr997

you say in the same post you don't have an axe to grind and you don't have any personal gripes with colm...Next time trust your instincts!!! Just my 2 cents!

RichK