340Elise

Please keep in mind that this is basically only true if you are talking about using the launch control from a standstill. Look at a more real world situation (whether track or street) and the cars are already moving; let's say 30 to 100 mph as an example. Now the launch control does not come into play, but the quick and seamless shifting of the PDK does come into play. Although the PDK will have a bit of an advantage in shifting times, I think this would be cancelled out by the added weight of the PDK and a guy behind the wheel of the manual car who really knows how to shift quickly.

IMHO:

I drove the PDK and was very impressed by the technology and its abilities in automatic mode (manual is great too, but that one is a little easier to "get right"). However, I also found it to be very boring to drive. I love rowing the stick and controlling 3 pedals the best I can to make smooth down shifts (rev matching) and up shifts and in more extreme driving: learning to heel and toe properly. To ME, that is much more fun and satisfying.

I think the PDK is a great technology for:

Those with a disability who cannot drive a traditional manual (without extreme modifications to the car), and they finally get an "automatic" Porsche tranny that is worthy of competing against the manual and finally levels the playing field.

It is also good for enthusiasts who live in high traffic areas and need an automatic, but still have the full performance potential for back road shenanigans and weekend track days.

And then there are those who cannot drive a manual, or just don't understand why anyone would buy a manual when the car can do the shifting for you. Well, most of these guys (not all) are probably more concerned with the badge on their car and impressing others; maybe the PDK will give them a taste of what a Porsche can really do and inspire them to start attending DE's; it is always nice to get more members to join.

I guess there is one more class: the guys who love manuals and who have mastered driving them. They are looking for a tranny that does not give up performance, but one that MIGHT actually give them a little more performance (better track times); and at the very least, it allows them to concentrate on other parts of high performance driving by taking out much of the effort required to properly shift a manual car while putting it through its paces. I say "might," because as I wrote above, the extra weight of the PDK may just cancel out its faster shift times.

What we need to see, are some tests by professional drivers in both the C2 and C2S with exactly the same options except the tranny. Then I would like to see testing of rolling 5 mph starts, and also 20 to 100 and 50 to 150 mph, and finally some lap times. Walter Rohrl might be just the guy to do this!

But 0 to 60 and 0 to 100 mph; sorry, but I could care less about the drag racing abilities of the PDK. Not to mention how repeated launch control starts will affect the warranty, because I guarantee you the ECU keeps track of this.

Last I heard the GT3 is not getting the PDK anyway, but that was from a British car mag, so who knows what the real truth is.

PDK is good, but after having driven it, I will stick with my stick!

stout

Shared all your thoughts until my second exposure to PDK on a race track. And LC was never in my thoughts. Who other than a Pro Solo II autocrosser will really care about LC?

I did drive both PDK and non-PDK in two identically equipped Carrera Ss, and two similarly equipped Carreras. On track, I preferred the PDK. While we were not timing the laps, I am fairly certain I was faster with PDK.

Now, a racer rather than a road tester *might* eek out a few tenths thanks to the 66 fewer pounds without PDK in a 3-lap to 3-lap comparo, but those 66 pounds would be irrelevant to most track day drivers (i.e. most people here), much less so than the sunroof or non-PCCB pounds would be. AND: I suspect the racers would tell you they'd prefer PDK every time. Why? Because they know the ability to *repeat* fast, consistent lap times *over time* is everything to their game. And if there's anything I've learned about racers, they go after the best equipment to help them do that easily.

My point in this thread is not personal preferences (I would also pick a stick for street driving, I also love HT shifting, I can easily foresee becoming bored with PDK and that's why I did not get DSG in my daily...). My point is that PDK seems to be considered by many as a Tip replacement, and its performance based on my continuing time with the transmission on TRACK suggests thinking of PDK as a "great new Tip" or a good solution for one-legged people is short-sighted.

And, the more I think about it, the more I think I'd think long and hard about ordering PDK if I wanted to become a better track driver with the 997 I would also drive on the street. And that a PDK-equipped 997 might be a better teaching tool than even some real track cars... BUT, this is something I am still thinking through.

Because I could always go back to a stick once I "get bored" with my perfection in braking points, turn-in, smoothness, and all those other skills I am still working on...

I'm simply trying to share some observations after spending time with PDK on track back to back with manual 997s, observations after not one but two track events, and observations I could not have made based on my time with PDK on the street (which led me to the same conclusions yours did).

pete

cgomez

340 Elise...

you left out all of us who are not stuck to tradition and have a Racing background and crave for left foot braking ALL the time. Two pedals are a much better driving interphase than 3.

For me rowing the gears is not what makes a good driver. PDK, SMG are just evolutions of the driver interphase with the same control by the driver as long as he chooses in which gear he is driving.

The only thing I miss at the track (on my GT2 and EXige S) from my old E46 M3, is SMGII and being able to master my left foot braking and ability to do almost perfect corner entries and maximizing power through and out of the corner not hindered by when and how I needed to make a gear change.

Cup cars work the same way (sequential clutchless gearbox delivers the same result and control by the driver), just that their interphase works mechanically different and requires a lot more frequent maintenance making it not an option for street-use.

The driver input controls IMO in order of importance are Steering, Accelerator and Brake pedal. We were just victims for the last 70 years of the way the system of making gear changes evolved. Someone got stuck with the idea of having different gears and the need to disengage power output to change between them (What if they had just stuck with the concept of CVT from the beginning?). And the older we are, the more difficult it is for most of us to change...

Bob Rouleau

I drove a variety of 997's this week at an introduction ut on by Porsche. All were PDK. I was very impressed with the new transmission. I suspect it will be fitted to the next Cup cars instead of the high maintenance sequential gear box.

It shifts fast and smooth. I disliked the buttons mind you, but I suspect that a few days with the car would cure the non intuitive nature of the selection mechanism. We were also given a tech briefing on how it works, complete with an actaul cut away gear box. The magic is two concentric clutches. the gear box itself is a pure manual 7 speed affair. The trick is the dual clutch, two gears are selected at once but only one clutch is active. When you shift, one clutch opens and the other closes. Simple and reliable. Brilliant. For track, the PDK will defintely be faster than a manual - although less involving.

As a daily driver, in auto mode it is very smooth and seamless. Like the best automatics on the market. Very impressive. In sport plus mode it shifts very fast with a bit of added harshness. Almost as fast shifting as the ferrari F1 but far less abrupt. I liked it!

By the way we also learned that the engine is a ground up new design and will be fitted to the race versions as well. new cases, new everything. No balance shafts, no (failure prone) intermediate shaft and the RMS issue is solved once and for all.

best,

340Elise

Agreed, which is why I added this point:

I guess there is one more class: the guys who love manuals and who have mastered driving them. They are looking for a tranny that does not give up performance, but one that MIGHT actually give them a little more performance (better track times); and at the very least, it allows them to concentrate on other parts of high performance driving by taking out much of the effort required to properly shift a manual car while putting it through its paces. I say "might," because as I wrote above, the extra weight of the PDK MAY just cancel out its faster shift times.


Understood and I also agree. My statement above also applies to this group; or at least it was meant to!


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Turbo4ever

Great, I have tested the PDK today and that's very smooth and fast, I really hope this will be also in the new GT3. Sady, most people on the internet say no PDK for the GT3 yet!

Cupcar#12

A91 will find its way into the entire range incld the GT3 the GT-1 engine is at its end of develpment

look for a displacement Bump in the RS - the 700nm version (same as turbo) will find its way into the GT3